Linux hits 4% on the desktop 🐧 📈

submitted by markus99 edited

gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worl…

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Eugenia

Linux also surpassed 10% in my country, Greece (10.72%).

I prepared a couple of old laptops I had around recently, to gift to my niece and cousin, and I put Debian with XFce in both of them. Worked great. And I think that's why Linux is big in Greece. Consider that when someone buys a car here, they use it until the end of its life. Very rarely they sell cars to get something new. The average car is 15 years old in Greece. I think that's the deal with old laptops and computers too: people try to extend the lives of their machines.

jackpot

how do you check for individual countries?

nossaquesapao

Follow the link in the post and click on "edit chart data".. You can select time frame, countries, which data to show, etc.

Eugenia

there's a choice on the bottom of the page somewhere

Deckweiss , edited

Don't panic, thats just me running it on PC, laptop, worklaptop, pinenote, pinephone, steamdeck and in multiple VMs for experimentation. (and don't forget my randomized fingerprinting setup in the browser)

Grangle1

Was gonna ask if this stat included the Steam Deck, as that's also accounting for the vast majority of Linux gaming numbers. Whether it does include the Deck or not, it's a nice rise, but all the better if it doesn't include the Deck. I wonder if the popularity of using Linux on the Raspberry Pi is helping too.

SuperIce

How many people are reading blogs on their steam decks though? I don't think it's having much of an effect for statcounter

Grangle1

You never know, given the Deck has desktop mode. That said, still is a good thing with or without the Deck bolstering the numbers.

konki

How is the PineNote coming along?

Wes_Dev

I love the idea of the Pinenote, but could never afford one.

blindbunny

This was my question too

Deckweiss

Not great tbh. But I made it work for my usecase somewhat.

As a huge tinkerer I like it over the Remarkable2 which I had before and which was a huge pain to customize.

But I wouldn't recommend it to normal people.

MigratingtoLemmy , edited

How are you randomising your fingerprint? I'm very interested

Edit: ah, in your browser

Cataphract

It rubs the lotion on it's skin.

EpicGamer

Hoe is the pinenote? I have been debating on buying one

Deckweiss , edited

https://lemmy.world/comment/8047127

Hardware is pretty solid, software is extremely lacking.

Only buy one if you want to develop for it.

umbrella

tell me more about your browser setup.

how do you randomize the fingerprint?

Churbleyimyam

What do you use for randomized fingerprinting?

Rai

Me, who could do everything I have set up with one RPi: FIVE? Guess imma get a third Pi

jol , edited

Didn't we hit 3% in January this year? At this rate well reach 350% by EOY!

nyctre

I know it's a joke, but where did you get that number? If it's at 3% in January and 4% in February. Either it's a flat 1% increase/month or an increase of 33%. How else can it be interpreted?

jol

From the dephs of my ass. But basically it's been around 2% for decades, then it went from 3 to 4% in a matter of months, so it's accelerating exponentially very quickly!

You can do funny things with statistics if you just use the wrong fitness function.

jan teli

From the depths of my ass

oh ok

nyctre

Fitness function, nice. Will remember that. Ty :D

gun

How else can it be interpreted?

Exponential increase that has been slow for decades, but is just now starting to ramp up?

nyctre , edited

Sure, but the question was how they got to the number. If it was a random big number, then fine, that answers my question, but I was just wondering if there was a reason behind it. Usually when people make that joke they just purposefully misinterpret the trend which is why I went for the 1% or 33%

Trainguyrom
wiki_me

You can download a csv of the market share from 2009, it shows it reached 3% for the first time in jun 2023, there might be some kind of rapid growth in popularity here.

njordomir

With MS enshitifying Windows at an ever increasing pace and the hard work of open source developers, volunteers, advocates, to make Linux better and more approachable, I won't be surprised at all to see that percentage move up.

"You mean its free and doesn't try to sell me other products the whole time I'm using it?"

Aurix

There is the psychological factor that Windows behaves more like malware with their forced full screen overlays to shove the Edge into your ass. Over and over again. Microsoft doesn't take No for an answer like an abusive partner.

njordomir

You put words to the feeling I get whenever I turn on my work PC. It has relatively little to do with my actual work. It's the dread of the psychological abuse of everything asking me to update, upgrade, and look at how cool our AI is, try all of our other products, share your opinion, etc. etc. etc. I would be twice as productive if they let me BYOOS (bring your own OS) and if my day to day tools were Linux compatible. There are best practices for this kind of thing, but many of the most "reputable" tech companies willingly disregard them in favor of mind games and dark psychology.

akakunai

damn, you might get me back on Windows if it feel like that 🥴

FoxBJK

And Microsoft keeps enshitifying Windows because they know they can get away with it. So many businesses are backed into a corner and have essential parts of their business that are only compatible with Microsoft's tech. They can't switch, they won't even entertain the idea (much less the time/energy required to test it out). The folks at Microsoft know they've won. I won't be surprised when they make Windows 12's compatibility even more egregious than 11's.

cyborganism

2024 : The year of the Linux desktop

ominouslemon

GUYS, IT'S HAPPENING

kurcatovium

This time for sure!!!

sverit

MY BODY IS READY

olafurp

10th year in a row

I think at 25 in a row it's a silver jubilee.

mr_right

Steam decks ?

Andrenikous

Probably a good chunk of it but admittedly it helped me feel confident in using Linux as my daily driver on my desktop. Nothing drives adoption like being able to play video games.

Blisterexe

this data is from web trackers, how many people visit the web on their steam deck?

Toribor

Sorry guys, this is just me with a basement full of computers running Linux.

nexussapphire

Sorry I've been reinstalling my computer about once a week.

caseyweederman

Same but with local repos and cached debs so they don't count

electricprism

We must all do what we can to BECOME the Mirror.

nolight

NixOS user spotted!

nexussapphire

I'm a bit more of a masochist, Archlinux. I am beginning to see the appeal of having something like NixOS though.

nolight

Definitely try it, using NixOS after the "horrors" of Arch feels much more secure. Your system is basically unbreakable, not unintentionally, at least.

downhomechunk [chicago]

found the power user!

Chemical Wonka

Finally the year of GNU/Linux desktop 🍾

u/lukmly013 (lemmy.sdf.org)

Haven't we celebrated 3% just a few months ago?

catloaf

You can set it to go back to 2009. Apparently it hit 3% in Q3 2023. And apparently Windows has steadily been trending downward from 95% to 73% since 2009, which is wild to me. I find it hard to believe that that isn't due to other factors like increased smartphone use over desktops.

u/lukmly013 (lemmy.sdf.org)

There's separate market shares for mobile devices, and combined as well.

Choosing all platforms we currently get:
Linux - 1.54%
Unknown - 2.42%
OS X - 5.87%
iOS - 17.82%
Windows - 27.39%
Android - 43.74%

catloaf

I understand that, but if people stop using desktops entirely (because they already have a phone in their pocket), the remaining users might be more likely to be on macOS or Linux for a specific reason.

I don't see the methodology on that page so it's hard to say for sure.

KISSmyOS

Android is Linux, too.

PuddingFeeling

I’m part of that I just upgraded two of my pc’s to Linux.

Resol van Lemmy

It's so good that it counts as an upgrade.

Dehydrated

Replacing Windows is always an upgrade

Resol van Lemmy

Can't disagree with that

Steal Wool

I just installed WSL so I can learn Linux before I totally get rid of windows. If anyone has any suggestions for windows users learning Linux I will read them!

Dehydrated

I would recommend you to try out Linux in a virtual machine and play around with it. You can watch this video if you don't know how to set this up. You can do much more with a VM than with WSL. It allows you to basically try any Linux Distribution, whereas WSL only supports a few distros. In a VM you also get a desktop environment by default, whereas WSL mostly restricts you to the terminal. Sure, you can run graphical apps in WSLg, but you still don't have a Linux desktop. Lastly, it's much easier to take a snapshot of a VM, and roll back in case you break something.

After you get comfortable in a VM, maybe try booting a Live USB of some Linux distribution. That way you will be able to try it out on your actual hardware.

After that, you can set up dual boot. That way, you can still keep your Windows installation, but also use Linux without any restrictions or limitations.

velox_vulnus

15.21% in India 🗿

reddit_sux

That is surprising perhaps govts push for adoption in Kerala and elsewhere is the reason.

onlinepersona

Kerala?

reddit_sux

https://www.zdnet.com/article/india-slowly-dumping-windows-for-linux/

An article from 2007 about Kerala and Tamil Nadu.

onlinepersona

Wow, OK. I half expected a linux distro called Kerala. Hopefully this stance spreads!

CC BY-NC-SA 4.0

jackpot

did you just creative commons kerala? is that even how that works. i cant just run a pc program to creative commons every possible phrase

Steal Wool

Yup

simple

Not surprising considering just how much India is running on old hardware. I wouldn't be surprised if a big chunk of laptops there don't even support win11.

doors_3

I saw lot of folks in college switch to Linux, especially Ubuntu back in the day. It was considered synonymous with *coding* here. There was a time I could recognize that Ubuntu's Unity DE from anywhere before it was killed(and resurrected again recently).

velox_vulnus

Unity was my first desktop, around the 2010s. Around 2020, I came back to Linux with the intention to ditch Windows forever.

doors_3

I switched completely to Linux somewhere around 2016, I guess. I gave Windows 11 a spin recently but it didn't leave too good of an impression.

jackpot

how do you check indovidual countries?

velox_vulnus

You just have to scroll down. Over there, you'll see the countries parameters.

1000000045

andreas

I hate that there is such a discrepancy between the amount of Linux server implementation and desktop usage. I'm hopeful for the future though, I've been noticing Linux has been getting more attention.

Trainguyrom

Linux dominates every computing sector except for the one it was originally created for

Honytawk , edited

Very telling how Linux dominates every computing sector, except the one where the majority of users has to interact with directly.

Seems like Linux just needs a shell before the average user is able to interact with it in a consumer-friendly way.

PoisonedPrisonPanda

I did my part.

pyre

on an unrelated note, people who squeeze in what os they use to every conversation also rises to 4%.

Tixanou

I use arch btw

boeman , edited

*tips fedora*

___

Just wait for VeganOS to drop

EatATaco

Is equating Linux users to vegans a thing? I came to the conclusion (I thought) on my own...but now reading this here I'm questioning that conclusion

ResoluteCatnap

"how do you know someone [does crossfit, is vegan, uses linux]"

"They'll tell you"

It's a fairly common joke and seems to get stapled onto any lifestyle choice that someone likes to talk about

elucubra

Linux users are like vegetarians Arch users like vegans. One is a dietary choice, the other a cult.

freedumb

It's a big thing because it's much easier to make fun of an objectively better lifestyle choice (avoiding meat or Microsoft etc.) than it is to try and argue against it. Especially because that would force people to question their own behaviour and that can be difficult and hurtful.

pyre

nah it's just a reputation because people who make these choices usually try to spread the word, but sometimes it becomes perceived as obnoxious. vegans just got a bad reputation because it was relatively early internet days, i haven't seen vegans being as obnoxious as weed smokers, for example.

now, weed smoking is objectively not a better lifestyle choice but i think they're much much worse than vegans ever were. has nothing to do with arguing against things, not that I would argue against veganism anyway; i admire the choice.

EatATaco

It's not making fun of the lifestyle, it's the the fact that people who partake in these things seemingly bring it up for no reason.

But honestly I can't remember the last time a vegan brought up being a vegan for no reason. While here on lemmy it seems every opportunity someone has to claim Linux superiority, no matter how weak, they have to let everyone know how "objectively better" they are.

JasonDJ

I’m vegan and I hate bringing it up out of any context. Obviously there’s context here since we’re talking about it.

Hell I hate even saying it at a restaurant. Get weird looks ordering pizza without cheese when everyone else is getting mozz sticks and wings. Sure I could get a salad, but have you ever had salad at a pizza place? Fucking horrid. And only oil and vinegar to slide it down your throat? Ugh.

Artemis_Mystique

hey I try to be vegan for software, but a moderate and balanced diet is the objectively better lifestyle choice than forcing beans and grass down your throat, and producing enough methane to power 2 dutch ovens.(I am from a predominantly vegetarian culture, most of our meat dishes have only 10% meat in them, which I think is a good enough amount)

crashoverride

What's the chance that these are actual regular people doing this?

AnUnusualRelic

Define "regular people".

iegod

Not tech savvy people. Your aunt.

Xanthrax

I downloaded Ubuntu recently. *Don't hurt me*

Grimpen

I stopped distro hopping around a decade ago, and just use default Ubuntu LTS releases. No shade from me.

I'm not going to pretend that Ubuntu is the coolest, hippest, trendiest distro around, but it's good enough, stake enough, and gosh darn it I'm just used to it.

JasonDJ

Ubuntu is great because they have a huge community and an enterprise-class, fully supported product. No shade for using it. It’s not my cup of tea, I often find myself wanting to be more on the bleeding edge, and I’ve found Endeavor (an Arch variant) to be amazingly capable.

But I’ve also been using Linux on and off since 97 and exclusove (at least in personal life) since like 2015.

Possibly linux

Where's the party?

PuddingFeeling

I waddling over!

anon987

StatCounter statistics are directly derived from hits—as opposed to unique visitors—from 3 million sites, which use StatCounter, resulting in total hits of more than 15 billion per month.[5] No artificial weightings are used to correct for sampling bias, thus the numbers in the statistics can not be considered to be representative samples.

Halano

I'm carious how they monitor linux desktop users maybe by web agent ? 

Dehydrated

Yes

nexussapphire

It doesn't mean much, it's just a metric people like around here. This number can grow and shrink just as easily with spoofed user agents strings. I think brave spoofs it and there's a chrome extension, there maybe a few more examples.

I wouldn't take it at face value is what I'm getting at. There's just no other way to measure because most distros don't collect telemetry and Firefox doesn't seem to make theirs public.

saigot

Websites choose to use their web analytics, then the site combines the web analytics looks at the web agent and guesses from there. I don't think the number has much meaning, it could vary widely if a Linux centric site opted in or if a privacy extension chooses to black/white list their stuff my default.

kbal

It's already at 112% on my desktop.

crispy_kilt

I use Debian btw

Dagamant

This year I went back to 100% Linux for my computers. I’ve kept my primary PC with Windows just for games but with the advancements that Proton has made to WINE it hasn’t been necessary. The only thing I miss in being able to use Affinity Publisher and Designer on the computer and not just my tablet.

MajorHavoc

Same here. Thanks to Proton and SteamDeck, things have reached a point where I can find plenty of things to play without keeping a Windows license around.

Dagamant

Last time I did it was 2008 or 2009, the only game I played much was World of Warcraft and it ran great under WINE at the time. I don’t remember exactly why I switched back to windows back then but it was probably games. I know I needed it when I got my VR headset back in 2016 but it’s been a while since I sold that. I don’t know if Steam VR works on Linux or not, I want to have a headset again.

Spectacle8011

Have you tried setting up Affinity Suite with the community guide?

jfx

How on earth can people stand using Windows full time? Everything I'm on a Microsoft product I feel claustrophobic!

BitingChaos

Uh, most apps are still for Windows. That's why so many people use it.

If you tell someone to use an alternative OS, but then they are left on their own to run alternative versions of apps that don't work the same, forced to give up features they are use to, or run dozens of different programs through Wine or Proton or emulation or virtualization or whatever, JUST BECAUSE "Microsoft bad", they're going to laugh at you and go right back to Windows.

It's taken Linux 30(?) years to make it to 4%, and a lot of that is recent because of games. It's still a niche platform.

smileyhead

Maybe. But this does not change the fact that managing Windows is so much pain even if some of clients I manage computers for have Windows because of the software like Adobe, I think every day how good it would be to get rid of it.

Dragon_Titan

Create an 'average user' friendly OS. Similar to ElementaryOS but more easier.

The GUI is elegant and its easy to download apps(applications).

For medium to heavy users, have a developer or advance mode.

Honytawk

Yeah, that is what Linux needs.

More segregation with yet another distro.

/s

erwan

Another distribution doesn't mean segregation. Diversity and compatibility is the strength of Linux.

Yes it comes with a small cost, but without it Linux wouldn't have the success it has today.

wewbull

PopOS, Mint, Ubuntu. All have that mission.

Honestly I'm at a bit of a loss what people think needs to become simpler.

InternetUser2012

The people hating on it are either shills or people that tried linux 10 years ago and it wouldn't run their game so they'll talk shit. I've been over a year now full time linux and it plays all the games I have and have gotten. I'm really impressed with how much better it's gotten over the past few years.

I run pop os with AMD hardware on wayland.

niisyth

As someone who has tried it on multiple devices in recent years, it still isn't smooth enough. And I've been assembling computers for 2 decades now. So not entirely technically illiterate, but just not adept in linux. Definitely heavily reliant on use cases for how smooth the experience is. The server side is very well developed with years of linux leaning heavier on that side, but the splintering of frontend has a bit of an android effect. Lots of really cool things but still some jank that you can't get rid of.

wewbull

I think the AMD hardware is a big part of things being a good experience.

muelltonne

Most people are not really using the OS. All they do is starting the webbrowser and that's it. They need input & sound from the OS, but that's it.

desconectado , edited

I use both. Sadly, I have lots of software that doesn't work (or works pretty bad) on Linux. I love Linux, but there's no denying it can be frustrated, specially if your hardware doesn't support it, and that applies to too many people who has no saying in the hardware they use.

So in what world? Corporate world, science, CAD modelling...

wildcherry

There is a big misunderstanding in people's mind. LInux claims to run on pretty much every system (and it does ofc), but people take it as in every device and drivers is supposed to run flawlessly. I bought a 200 euros thinkpad knowing lenovo supported Linux directly, and I'm more satisfied with it than my 3000 euros macbook pro. In fact I havent opened my work one for 6 months+ lol

Mandatory I use arch btw

scratchandgame

Current distros doesn't support many hardware platform, despite being very well funded. Compared to OpenBSD. (NetBSD is too much, right? and it is not really usable.)

Fedora: Only run on amd64, arm64, arm, ppc64le, s390x

Debian: i386, amd64, arm64, arm, ppc64le, mips64le, s390x, riscv64 (testing).

Alpine: same as Debian but no MIPS support

Add your own here.

There isn't sparc64 support at all!

https://www.openbsd.org/sparc64.html The other architectures that OpenBSD supports have benefited because some kinds of bugs are exposed more often by the 64-bit big endian nature of UltraSPARC.

https://www.openbsd.org/want.html It is important to spread sparc64 around the development community, since it is the most strict platform for detecting non-portable or buggy code.

OpenBSD: alpha, amd64, arm64, armv7, hppa, i386, landisk, loongson, luna88k, macppc, octeon, powerpc64, riscv64, sparc64 (all equally supported except Alpha)

(VAX is discontinued after 6.9)

shortwavesurfer

I use a Windows 10 virtual machine for this purpose and run Linux on my bare metal hardware. And if I absolutely have to use Windows, I can boot the virtual machine, use Windows, and then shut it back down again until I need it again.

desconectado

I mean, that's what I do, do you think that's feasible for everyone? No. Not everyone is willing to go through that much hassle.

BCsven

CAD world and corporate PLM is supported on REL or SUSE by Siemens NX v12 and Teamcenter

Grofit , edited

Stuff just works on windows, I have a proxmox box with some Linux vms to run containers and I've tried several times over the last 20 years to move to Linux on my main pc but there are just too many faffy bits.

I really dislike what windows has become, it's bloat ware that's getting worse and worse, but I begrudgingly use it as I can be productive, the moment I can be as productive in Linux I'm off of windows, but even simple things like drivers are often not as good, lots of commercial software has barebones or no Linux support, there are many different package managers (on one hand great) but some have permission problems due to sandboxing when you need something like your IDE to have access to the dotnet package, also as a developer building apps/libs for Linux is a nightmare.

For example if I make an app for Windows I build a single binary, same for mac os, for Linux it's the Wild west, varying versions of glibc various versions of gtk and that's the simpler stuff.

Anyway I REALLY WANT to like Linux and move away from windows to it, but every time I try its hours/days of hoop jumping before I just end up going back to windows and waiting for windows to annoy me so much I try again.

(just to be clear the annoyances I have with windows are it's constant ad/bloat ware, it's segregation of settings and duplication of things, it constantly updating and forcing you to turn off all their nonsense AGAIN)

ikidd

Honestly, you get used to whatever you use and learn to avoid the faffy bits. I was like that with Windows back in the day, I just learned how to deal with it.

Now when I have to use a Windows box, I end up in a rage because of all the stupid shit I just used to avoid or knew how. Most of the useful bits are hidden from that Settings app that seems like it's designed for children.

So really, if you get down to it and pushed your way through the familiarity stage, you'd be fine. If you want something that doesn't give you much visible complexity for configuration, use Gnome, if you like to have every setting at your fingertips, use Plasma.

If you want your applications in a single bundle, use AppImage which is essentially what MacOS does.

And for development, being able to do things like containers/distrobox for your toolchains right on your dev box, without whatever the hell it is that Windows does these days is pretty sweet.

AnUnusualRelic , edited

That's exactly it. I've been using Linux on my desktop for literally decades now and to me it just works.

Whereas using windows is an endless string of frustrations because everything is awkward and broken and unclear and hidden in places that make no sense.

Of course I manage because I've been around long enough, but I always wonder why people choose to use it.

deczzz

I have the same experience as the author you just replied to. While some of what you are saying is true, I have never had everyday issues like these on windows. I switch to Linux once a year to change things up. Mint, arch, Debian... A few major issues I experience - login screen just freezes after standby - wifi not automatically recognizing what settings e.g. security protocol my work wifi uses - external monitors not working - updates just breaking my whole OS or not working

These are essentials, not something I can simply learn to live with or fix on the fly.

Would love to switch! I can get through work without proprietary software so that's not the issue.

ikidd

Well, that sucks. I've used it for decades now and the last 8 or 10 years seems really low-maintenance.

Maybe try a Fedora spin like Nobara next time you get around to it. It's pretty tuned up and seems stable as hell. And fairly cutting edge.

Nevoic , edited

Linux is a far more reliable operating system at the kernel level, which is why the vast majority of the Internet runs on Linux, and is very stable compared to anyone's personal computer (no matter O.S). It's also lighter weight at its core, which is a big plus for servers.

The thing about Linux desktops that tend to be finicky is interop with some proprietary software (e.g nvidia drivers) or desktop environments (gnome can freeze/crash if you like running bleeding edge before bugs are ironed out). Windows has issues too however, free software often literally doesn't run on Windows (requiring WSL, the same way games on Linux require wine), and the desktop environment is essentially indistinguishable from the base operating system. When you get a desktop environment crash on Windows, your system will BSOD and restart with no recourse, in Linux I can ssh into my still functioning computer and kill my DE, or drop to the TTL and do the same thing.

The end might not seem like a big deal for some people (who cares if you have to restart by a button press or kill your DE and login, they'll take a similar amount of time), but for someone like me where reliability is a big concern (as in, uptime for the half a dozen services/containers I run for people), this is great. People watching media off of jellyfin don't have to stop because of a DE bug, but on Windows a BSOD would stop their media (and within the last week we've had several BSODs on Windows PCs due to bugs relating things like adaptive sync or sometimes just unknown reasons).

For what it's worth I also game exclusively on Linux, vk3d, dxvk, and proton are godsends. Somethings don't work, developers who won't flip the switch for EAC (e.g Fortnite), but for me the games I play always worked. This will actually change soon, Vanguard is coming to League and that only works on Windows, but also probably not my last install of Windows (I tried W11 when it came out because I'm just curious about new tech), but I had to do a TPMBypassCheck despite having ftpm enabled in the BIOS, and afaict, at least from people I know with similar builds to me, if this happened then firmware TPM probably isn't being picked up by W11, and that means I need to buy a TPM module or drop to W10 to play League. Plus, vanguard is an intense rootkit with full 24/7 access to your O.S so I probably don't want that installed anyway, even if it happened to work on Linux. Just going to stick to SoD for now in my free time lol

Grofit

I have a steamdeck and it's a brilliant bit of kit and if the whole Linux eco system had this same sort of cohesion and "out the box" working experience then it would probably be far more adopted.

Your point on stability is great, but for most people I would say they rarely see BSODs, windows is pretty stable too, I think a lot of the reasons that corporate servers use Linux over windows is more to do with licensing and permissions, I have seen plenty of windows server setups which works fine 24/7 so I don't think windows is any less stable, it's just more faff to setup things which are based on Linux conventions/features (i.e docker).

If Windows went back to how it was in window ls 7 where it didn't ram garbage down your throat every update I wouldn't have any problems with it.

niisyth

Exactly this. To both points actually. I have a home server on debian and after a bit of setup woes(partly linux still being so reliant on CLI, partly my inexperience with it), it's been running super smoothly. Have multiple dockers and it has been a joy. And same for the steam deck, it just works. Some glitches here and there with controller support but that's just PC gaming. But I installed it on my laptop as well and that was a shitshow. All biometrics wouldn't work, wifi kept dropping in and out, phantom touches now and then. Sure I could have done some cli technical wizardry but I gave up after trying to make it work half as smoothly on my workflow as in windows. And the windows 11 on it is utter garbage. Partly this is manufacturing not having linux drivers available and partly it is linux just not having guis for essential functions. Hope steam is able to have enough of a push to get much needed consumer friendly guis for more system functions.

scratchandgame

It’s also lighter weight at its core, which is a big plus for servers.

Really? Busybox is more-or-less feature equivalent to a BSD userland (FreeBSD userland can be a bit more bloated, see the ls man page), but how many people have picked that up? Still using GNU coreutils, haha.

I saw many *BSD developers told Linux kernel developers to hang their work for a while and fix quality problems.

whoami

I have to use it at a job. It's awful, the ads on windows 11 especially.

The Bard in Green

This is exactly how I feel. I can't relax into my work (and my work quality is impacted) when I have to use Windows.

Honytawk

The majority of people ... just aren't into OSes enough to care.

Windows does what they want it to do, comes with the laptop they bought and doesn't require much setup for them to start using it. Even a tech illiterate can setup a Windows in 15 minutes.

The more advanced users just know how to read settings, and disable all the parts they do not like. Windows can very much be molded to adapt to the users preference, no matter what the Linux fanatics claim. Most of their arguments come from an ignorant perspective that hasn't rang true for 10+ years.

Squizzy

How do they know the percentage, does Linux send info back to somewhere?

Blisterexe

your browser tells websites what os youre using

Squizzy

Oh yeah, another thing I've to do is find a browser that doesn't.

jackpot

librewolf

Squizzy

Yeah, I already use Firefox and the standard add ons, but I wasn't sure if it was one that gave out user data to websites.

Blisterexe

by default it does not randomize the user agent string, because that would make some websites, (eg: download pages) behave weird

theonlyk

So... I have a couple 40-core Xeon servers in my homelab. What do I need to do to trigger these higher? I can Argo Workflow jobs that spin up VMs and execute a webhook / etc to whatever is needed. Let's get that needle at least past the fisher price of OS's MacOS.

sugartits , edited

Yeah, fake those numbers! That'll definitely help the cause and not at all make anyone look desperate or stupid or cause the data to be thrown away!

Go you!

snaggen

But is the desktop really the most relevant measurement? Wouldn't it be more relevant to talk about "primary" devices? When I grew up, the desktop was what people used to connect with Internet and everything that comes with that. Hence, Linux on the desktop seemed to be relevant. Now, that is still relevant in relation to work and gaming, but for general use people use other devices. So instead of "on the desktop" I think we should talk about "for work", "for gaming" and "for programming".

JubilantJaguar

Exactly.

As usual, the geeks in this forum are completely out of touch with reality. I say that as a Linux user of decades.

Desktop stats matter less than ever because ordinary people do not buy desktop computers any more and will do so even less in the future.

ghterve , edited

But in this context, desktop includes laptops. People still buy those.

JubilantJaguar

Less and less. At this point most internet users in the world have never been near a general-purpose computer of any kind.

PuddingFeeling

The Linux phone has hit 0.01% oooof

I'm calling to arms linux desktop users to dip their toes into this space as we need all the support we can get

nossaquesapao , edited

Well... in 2022, linux wasn't even categorized on mobile, and was grouped into "others". Now its marketshare is relevant enough to have its own category. It's something.

PuddingFeeling

That’s actually a nice silver lining ;)

suppenloeffel

As much as I'd like to use a Linux phone, it's simply not feasible for almost everybody at the moment.

What do people user their phone for? - Private conversations - Banking - All kind of apps

Linux phones, at the moment, are way behind Android/iOS in terms of security and, since privacy requires security, also in privacy.

Even stock Android has so many more security features, that it's not even close. Verified boot, exploit mitigation, (working) app sandboxing and so on. Not even speaking of specialized projects like GrapheneOS.

Even if the app ecosystem was there and the OS mature, I'd never run my banking through a Linux phone at the moment.

AProfessional

Also its just hostile hardware. I can run Linux on any PC I own. Only a few phones support installing it and have bad drivers even if.

suppenloeffel

Yes, but in fairness: The same is true for iOS or GrapeneOS, though that's for valid reasons.

Catsrules

Hold on here how is Linux Desktop beating out chrome OS? Don't get me wrong I am totally onboard with Linux winning over chrome OS. But I just don't believe it.

I can got to any local store right now and buy a Chrome OS computer. I can't say the same for Linux.

mindlight

The statistics seem to be based on User Agent. A lot of people"fake" their user agent to avoid fingerprinting and other things.

I myself used to do it when I wanted to download Windows 10 ISO from Microsoft. If your UA said anything Windows you were forced to use download Microsoft USB Tool. If it said Linux you got a direct link to the ISO.

kurcatovium

Isn't chrome os more or less US specific? Yes, I could buy a laptop with chrome os in central Europe if I looked for it, but is it widespread? Absolutely not. I don't know single person that have (or had) one.

Catsrules

That I don't know, I just know my territory in the US they are in every store that carries laptops.

I believe I have also seen them in Canada as well.

Wes_Dev

Not sure, but I'll say that if you use ChromeOS, you're much more likely to buy special hardware (Chromebooks) to run it on. Not many people download ChromeOS to run on their pre-existing computers. But you can just slap Linux on a toaster if you really want to. Even more, Valve's Steam Deck comes with Linux by default, and that's basically a desktop with touch and gamepad controls in mind.

I just wish the culture around open source gave more back to the people working on the software, even if it was just businesses. I think we'd see even more delevopment and support if the one guy making a critical driver for some obscure device that only power plants use, could take a vacation or quit his day job.

People around the world depend on open source being freely available and shareable. But if you're making millions of dollars a year, I think it's only fair to give some money to the people making your profit possible.

Catsrules

Not sure, but I’ll say that if you use ChromeOS, you’re much more likely to buy special hardware (Chromebooks) to run it on. Not many people download ChromeOS to run on their pre-existing computers.

That is my point. Normal people are not downloading any OS and installing it on their computers. They are going to the local big box store or online store and buying a computer and using whatever that OS is preinstalled. In my neck of the woods those options are Windows, OSX and Chrome OS. There is no Linux computers at your local big box store. And I am sure you could find a Linux computer online if you specifically searched for it but Amazon is going to put the Linux computer on page 500 if you search for "Laptop"

Valve’s Steam Deck comes with Linux by default

Yeah the Steam Deck is the only thing the came to my mind that mainstream people would get that would have Linux pre-installed. However I can't imagine it is the steam deck is selling anywhere near the numbers to what Chrome OS computers are selling and also these numbers are based on web browsing. Are people using their steam deck to browse the web? I have a Steam Deck and yes Gaming is amazing on it however if I am being honest the desktop experience is terrible I don't know how they manage to make the on screen keyboard suck so bad. I would prefer browsing the web on my phone over the Steam Deck. The only way I would browse the web on the Steam Deck is if it was fully setup with a Mouse and Keyboard and External monitor.

Granted this is all just based of my single experience and small corner of the world view point. Maybe Linux is poping off in other parts of the world like in India with a huge population base.

Wes_Dev

Oh no, I got you. I was kind of looking at if from another angle.

You normally can't buy a machine with desktop Linux pre-installed, but you can with ChromeOS. Despite that, Linux has a bigger market share. I think part of the reason why is specifically because ChromeOS is so limited and intrinsically tied to Google, that people who do things like install new OSes avoid it like the plague. Google's push to satisfiy shareholders and build walled gardens is the reason their desktop OS isn't being used.

I've installed Android in virtual machines and played with x86 builds on bare metal. I've installed Linux on Macbooks, desktops, servers, and handhelds. I've tried out BSD on network shares and other little devices. I've never done anything like that with ChromeOS. It holds zero appeal to me, despite being easily purchasable at a retail store.

Possibly linux

Linux has much better hardware support overall than Windows.

Catsrules , edited

Sure but at least from my experience if the desktop hardware doesn't support Windows we are already talking about a very obscure type of hardware that isn't going to be mass deployed to the general public that would affect this user agent statistic.

Possibly linux

The thing with Windows is that you are dependent on the Manufacture to make drivers for the device. Windows supports nothing out of the box. You can see this if you install Windows stock on a device with no internet. Granted that's very uncommon but depending on the manufacture for support is a mixed bag sometimes.

pathief

Sure but that's a really really narrow scope. Hardware is designed to work with Windows first. It's unfortunate but it is what it is and saying hardware support is bad on windows is misleading.

Possibly linux

I just know from experience with obscure hardware. You can't run Windows on your router and Windows 11 doesn't support serial connections.

PuddingFeeling

Yeah linux runs on 30+ year old hardware

Possibly linux

And brand new $12k CPUs

Trainguyrom

I think I saw somewhere that Windows still has scheduled bugs with high core count CPUs so you can legitimately get better performance from Linux because the scheduler has already been optimized for high core count servers

jollyrogue

Yeah, why isn’t ChromeOS rolled into Linux?

Catsrules , edited

I know technically ChromeOS is running Linux under the hood but it has been so bastardized by Google that it looses the spirit of Linux that it shouldn't be consider the same thing. At least in my opinion.

jollyrogue

I’m not sure about that. Android isn’t Linux for those reasons, but ChromeOS is much, much closer to a regular GNU/Linux distro. They’re even switching to Wayland from what I’ve heard. 😄

mrshy

I don't know but it might be inextricably linked to Googles content servers or reliant on services in such a way that it can't simply be stripped of the telemetry in the way VSCodium is for example.

jollyrogue

ChromeOS uses a custom display server for the moment, but Chrome + <random Linux distro> is pretty similar. 🤷🏽‍♂️

ChromeOS is moving to Wayland as their display server, to make it even more of a standard Linux install.

WhiskyTangoFoxtrot

I just built a new PC but I've still been booting up my old laptop from time to time to retrieve files/settings/etc. I'm going to take credit for this.

dgmib

I question the methodology here. The same site lists Linux desktop share at 2% in my country specifically. It feels like if it was that high you’d see it on people’s laptops more in coffee shops and what not… but I’ve yet to see a single other person using Linux on the desktop.

I know most of that 4% is in India… but still feels like it should be more ubiquitous if the number is that high.

nossaquesapao , edited

With 2%, you would roughly find someone using linux for every 50 computers you stumble upon. Maybe it's not as far off as you imagine. However, like someone already mentioned, the distribution isn't homogenous, and maybe there are concentrations of linux computers in some universities, businesses, etc.

Or maybe linux users don't go out as often as the average person, so you never get the chance to see them in coffee shops lol. If the other linux users are like me, that's exactly the case...

AProfessional

2% is still very low, and thats not necessarily spread evenly throughout different areas/communities.

Exocrinous

I moved back to Windows for the games years ago. But I'm never going to install a copy of Windows 11 because fuck that shit, and the next time I move to Linux, I suspect games won't be a problem.

Have they fixed Discord streaming yet?

NeonWoofGenesis

Haven't had any troubles screensharing on wayland, so I guess?

nexussapphire

I don't know if it's still needed or if discord updates to a newer version of electron that supports Wayland.

This should help if you need to support screen capture in x11 apps. XWayland video bridge

Danitos

From Linux, I've screen-shared my desktop in the web application for some years without troubles. Not even need to install the app.

smileyhead

This site is using stats based on browser's users agent string, very unreliable source of imformation today. Please stop celebrating when it have an anomaly and do it's temporary spike up or down every couple of months.

Linux is in fact rising, like all desktop OSes besides Windows, because Windows is losing market share. But celebrating stats from this site is not worth it.

dukatos

Librewolf uses windows UA to avoid fingerprinting so yes, that is not reliable method.

Possibly linux , edited

I wonder if it's more like 8%

Honytawk

The majority of the "unknown" stats are most likely Windows if you compare the graphs.

Possibly linux , edited

Bla, Bla, Bla Linux market share is spiking.

That's what what I got out of your extremely large comment. Time to go back to my party

caseyweederman

I ain't reading that essay

kib48

year of the linux desktop!!!!

Psiczar

I’ve got LXC’s running on my Proxmox host and been playing or working with Linux for 25 years, but on my desktop I’ve always run Windows. Linux is great right up until it isn’t and then I spend more time than I’d like troubleshooting it. On my desktop I just want things to work and Windows does that. I hate the bloatware, spyware and the nagging to switch to Edge, but everything I run, runs, including games with anti-cheat. I’m sure I could get Linux to a similar state, but it would take a lot more effort.

raw

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The freedom of choice is wonderful, isnt it ? We are all free, to make our own decisions, as free as to live with the consequencies out of that^^

PuddingFeeling

To see where we're at with the linux phone https://alexandrite.app/lemmy.ca/post/16514606.

const_void

I've never understood how this is good for Linux. Why is having more users so important?

markus99 [OP]

More users means there is more interest from private companies to reach these users and to port their software/products to Linux. Ie Adobe, Games, AutoCAD Suit, etc.

const_void , edited

But why do we want more proprietary software running on Linux? Wouldn't we be recreating the same situation that Windows has?

Edit: Why downvote me instead of replying with a reason why I'm "wrong" or discussing further? Is Lemmy turning into Reddit already?

Cowbee

There's also more chances of FOSS being developed for Linux if more people use it. FOSS is better the more popular it gets.

const_void

This seems like wishful thinking to me. Is there any data that supports that with more users comes more FOSS developers?

Cowbee

I'm not sure you need data to understand that if more people use a product, there's a greater chance someone will develop FOSS for it, as FOSS developers tend to also be users.

jollyrogue

Bigger platforms attract more devs.

The BSDs don’t have the dev resources of Linux simply because Linux has a much larger install base.

MajorHavoc

But why do we want more proprietary software running on Linux?

You're right, there's downsides for the FOSS community, but it's much better for many individuals.

Usability, accessibility and privacy for a user is better when any proprietary software, that they cannot avoid, can at least run relatively sandboxed inside an OS they have control over.

Wouldn't we be recreating the same situation that Windows has?

Good point, but thankfully, an open OS mitigates these issues a great deal.

jollyrogue

Proprietary software is one of the last anchors holding people to Windows or macOS.

Ideally, people would switch to FOSS alternatives on a FOSS OS, but proprietary software on top of a FOSS OS is better than FOSS software on a proprietary OS.

Also, people are going to charge for software in some form or fashion. The economic model would need to change in order to allow people to develop software without any economic motives.

Theharpyeagle

The difference is that, with a base FOSS OS, you're not locked in to an flavor you don't like. Dislike the way Ubuntu is headed? Switch to Debian, Pop, or Mint and use the same exact programs you're used to. If you dislike Windows 11, you've only got a few years before you're forced to switch to it. Makes it much easier for them to force shitty decisions.

More adoption of Linux also means more incentive for FOSS projects to support it. Yes, it also means more proprietary software, but the truth is that most people don't care what kind of software they use as long as it works for them. At least Linux can't become beholden to the demands of that software.

Fubarberry

People don't like frequently dual-booting or switching operating systems. If someone needs a specific program for work, and that program only works on windows, chances are they will only use windows.

Many people have to use proprietary software at work, which means most computers for work have to run windows. If linux can get enough marketshare to get support for the necessary programs that people have to use, that will free them up to not use windows at all.

shrugal , edited

But why do we want more proprietary software running on Linux?

Because it's what reality looks like right now. Everything FOSS would be ideal, but it's probably not going to happen for a looooong time. In the meantime more software is always good, and it also means more FOSS software you can choose as an alternative.

Wouldn't we be recreating the same situation that Windows has?

No, because the base OS is still open, so you have choices that you don't have under Windows.

Why downvote me instead of replying with a reason why I'm "wrong" or discussing further?

Tbh it sounds a bit disingenuous when you say that you don't understand such a basic thing. It should be pretty obvious that more users means more interest from devs+companies and more support for the platform.

TrickDacy

You've never understood how support works? It doesn't matter that it's harder to find apps that work on Linux than windows and Mac? It matters less to me than most people but it definitely still matters

LeFantome

I would certainly benefit if more hardware supported Linux out-of-the-box.

Many people will benefit if that one key application they need is supported on Linux.

We all benefit from the paid developers working on Linux. The number of such people are linked to the profitability of Linux for companies which is a function of popularity.

Your point is a very important one. The numbers have to come up so that manufacturers notice. It might make the difference in a laptop designer choosing a well-Linux-supported wifi chip, instead of a shitty, closed chipset like Broadcom. When the price-per-unit difference is pennies, knowing that you're potentially losing some thousands of customers in exchange for saving a few cents per unit can make the difference in how you choose.

It also matters in user choice in the workplace. The more normalized Linux is, the more likely there will be skills in IT support, more mass-management tools, and more willingness to allow employees to choose their OS.

But where it really matters is in standards. Diversity puts pressure on software developers to use standardized and open data exchange standards. I can't emphasize enough how important diversity in OSes is to driving creation of, and conformance to, standards, and how much of an anathema to standards monocultures are.

Even within OSS this is true: github and git have become monocultures; they aren't standards, they're tools developers are forced to use if they want to interact with the wider development world in any meaningful way. They're not bad; git became dominant largely because github used to be so fantastically better than anything else available at the time; but now, their very dominance stiffles diversity and innovation. Want to try the rather exciting pijul, the patch-based spiritual successor to darcs? Fuck you, because you won't be able to collaborate with anyone, and you repos won't work with any proglang module systems like cargo or Go modules, because it isn't git[1]. Monocultures are bad, whether they're evil corporation software, or FOSS.

Higher Linux use increases diversity, encourages data format standards, and creates a healthier ecosystem. That's why these numbers are important.

[1] Go and Rust's cargo support more VCSes than git, but they could easily not, and I'm sure the maintainer's of the vcs code wish they could drop support for some of the long tails - and everything that isn't git is on the long tail at this point. There are attempts at creating some standards around this; ActivityPub has tossed around ideas, forgefriends has been trying for a breakthrough for years - none of them address the root issue of how tools can access sourcecode efficiently in a way abstracted from the underlying vcs. Any such tool currently must have some bespoke code to speak the network language of the vcs, for every vcs. And since git is the most popular, when faced with the daunting task of supporting N vcses, when N-1 of them are in toto used by a small percent of users, it's just easier to support only git.

m3t00🌎

while(1);

scratchandgame

Cool. Then many more people would switch from Linux to BSDs instead. Which is better.

exhaust_fan

Dumb question but what's a BSD? What's the difference?

geoma

It's another libre operating system that is not GNU/linux

jackpot

wjy would it be better

geoma

Its more of a niche. You probably won't have the huge support you have on gnu/Linux nowadays

scratchandgame

"gnu/Linux nowadays" is unusable on old hardware (except distros like Alpine) I think?

flying_gel , edited

It's not necessarily better, some things are a personal preference. Though some might be able to list some technical pros and cons.

Some things I appreciate are:

  • base systems and packages are completely separate. Packages and their configuration goes in /usr/local/ No where else. (Thought they might write to /var/ )
  • bsd init, not systemd. Feels more home to me as a late 90s slackware user.
  • first class zfs support. Linux has caught up lately, especially now that there is a shared zfs codebase for both Linux and FreeBSD. When I switched to FreeBSD on my home server ~10 years ago that wasn't the case.
scratchandgame

That research is much easier than figuring out what is computer's "stack" without using my first language!

exhaust_fan

Dude I'm a beginner struggling to learn Linux because there are so many options, so few good explanations, and people like you only want to patronize me

I just want a tldr

malo

Of course only correct selection is TempleOS.

scratchandgame

I don't think its power is comparable to research unix :)