Linux phones are still behind android and iPhone, but the gap shrank a surprising amount while I wasn’t looking. These are damn near usable day to day phones now! But there are still a few things that need done and I was wondering what everyone’s thoughts on these were:
1 - tap to pay. I don’t see how this can practically be done. Like, at all.
2 - android auto/apple CarPlay emulation. A Linux phones could theoretically emulate one of these protocols and display a separate session on the head unit of a car. But I dont see any kind of project out there that already does this in an open-source kind of way. The closest I can find are some shady dongles on amazon that give wireless CarPlay to head units that normally require USB cables. It can be done, but I don’t see it being done in our community.
3 - voice assistants. wether done on device or phoning into our home servers and having requests processed there, this should be doable and integrated with convenient shortcuts. Home assistant has some things like this, and there’s good-old Mycroft blowing around out there still. Siri is used every day by plenty of people and she sucks. If that’s the benchmark I think our community can easily meet that.
I started looking at Linux phones again because I loathe what apple is doing to this UI now and android has some interesting foldables but now that google is forcing Gemini into everything and you can’t turn it off, killing third party ROMS, and getting somehow even MORE invasive, that whole ecosystem seems like it’s about to march right off a cliff so its not an option anymore for me.
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I was wondering what everyone’s thoughts on these were:
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It doesn’t work on GrapheneOS either, so I got separate devices I carry with me that do the tap-to-pay instead, and they’ve been a godsend. They’re super compact as well and came for free when I opened the accounts.
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I don’t own a car, on ebike I use my screen.
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Normally I use my fingers. If they’re not available I yell cuss words at my phone until they’re available again.
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62 comments and not a-one mentioned Sailfish OS yet?
Yes, it’s not 100% open source, yes, it used to do business with Russia but not anymore since 2022, yes, it only supports a few Sony phones (available cheaply on the used market) but it is a 100% Linux operating system!
It has been my daily driver for 5 years now.
Also, Finland bonus.
didn’t it require an online account?
You need to register to download it. After that, no. Unless you want continuous OTA upgrades.
Yikes.
They did release a new community phone too - C2. Nothing spectacular in terms of specs but still.
Damn I keep forgetting that. I’ve been buying used phones for so long, it doesn’t even enter my mind.
The used phone market is so oversaturated, you can always get yesterdays favorite for a fraction of its new price.
Yeah, pity is not available worldwide
It surely is available - and usable - worldwide.
Someone did do some work on reimplementing the Android Auto Client Server API.
Just needs time and interest.
God i wish I was smart enough to contribute to these things
Claude code can help
No it can’t. Why would someone maintaining a code base want to read and debug code submitted by someone else who didn’t even bother to write it, especially if I’m not already using Claude code or another vibe code generator.
It’s not too late, I have faith in you
Didn’t blackberry have a fairly good solution where they had an android sandbox running within their OS?
tap to pay. I don’t see how this can practically be done. Like, at all.
The same way it was done with Google, Samsung and Apple. Just has to become more popular until banks and credit card companies will have to work with developers to make it happen.
android auto/apple CarPlay emulation.
Again, it will have to require the compliance of OEMs. However I see the entirety of these systems disappearing soon as more OEMs want to lock users into paid subscriptions for such features.
voice assistants
I’m not convinced this will ever be useful. Several of the largest tech companies on the planet have tried and all have failed miserably to produce anything useful for decades at this point.
For Linux it could be tied in with terminal commands using an LLM:
“Install Firefox” ->
apt install firefox“Open Firefox” - >
firefox & disownaichat --executealready turns natural language into terminal commands through any OpenAI-compatible API (and OpenRouter provides free Deepseek R1/Kimi K2 access), so there just needs to be speech-to-text.
Reading these comments it looks like it’s not quite time to switch over for daily use.
Graphene is not a linux OS, but you could get a used Pixel 8 running Graphene and be happy through to 2028.
Depending on what bank they have, tap to pay won’t work with Graphene OS either.
That’s not a deal breaker for me.
GrapheneOS (like any other AOSP fork) is technically a Linux based OS. They run a modified version of the Linux Kernel. What matters is the changes they have made to the kernel, as well as enforcing AVB, SELinux, etc. etc.
“Linux” phones that run modified desktop Linux distros are hugely insecure devices that lack many basic security and hardening features.
Huh? Is that it for the major “issues”?
Don’t get me wrong, everyone has different needs and wants, and so this might not work for everyone. I was hesitant at first to let go of mobile tap to pay, but I’ve been going strong for a year now and just take my wallet with me everywhere anyway. I have an older car so I literally can’t even use Auto/Car Play, and I was never a voice assistant type of person ever.
My biggest needs are being able to use most of the apps I use, having easy communication with my family, and security and privacy (leaning more towards security). If I could find suitable alternatives to the apps I use, and texting isn’t an issue (especially with iPhones, my family all uses them), then I’d gladly hop on over to Linux phones. I know someone is working on “WINE” for Android, and if that was doable and integrated well on Linux phones, I’d be set.
Gonna spend time researching now 🧐
Which phone did you find where these are the only problem you encountered? I don’t care about any of these things and haven’t been finding any usable Linux phones.
What problems have you had?
They’re slow and clunky as fuck for starters. Cellular is very spotty.
Do you have a good alternative I can look into? I really, really, really want them to work. The only usable Linux phone I’ve seen is Jolla, but I’d much rather have Mobian or Arch on mobile or some other fully FLOSS alternative
How old are you that you “need” these things.
Is not being able to use tap to pay, or having to plug in an aux cable really that big of an inconvenience?
Tap to pay is essential to me. I never carry anything more than my phone, so no credit/debit card.
So what happens if your phone is lost or stolen or damaged? How would you pay for a new phone?
Taking the CC out of the sock drawer, at home. That’s an edge case though. That’s not what we are solving for the other 99.99% of the time …
So you sacrafice your ability to use a more free device because youd rather leave your credit card at home, but thats A choice that you made. If you wanted you could bring a card with you or cast with you or a wallet full of things. Do you not carry ID with you either?
Honestly tap2pay seems like very little advantage over a credit card for having to sacrafice privacy and the ability to control the software on my phone, but thats just me.
Or, touch wood, using cash!
Imagine the horror. Something that can even work if there’s no internet at all, like the cave man used…
Or, sarcasm aside, besides working properly offline, it doesn’t give money to evil companies like visa. Then with the phone there’s yet another evil company profiting from you. And giving people the idea that it’s impossible to live without doing so.
It’s a little extra convenience for those who like it, sure, but it’s crazy to say they can’t live without it.
🙄 first of all, I carry a very limited wallet with me most of the time, and I only have to carry a keychain when I’m in the US.
I was replying to the dismissive person above asking what to do when he loses his phone. Which is absurd in itself.
I will say that it is incredibly liberating to have my one device do almost everything else I care about, mapping, calendaring, communicating with people in meeting with, conducting my purchases, and providing podcasts or tunes all at the same time. I love that I have open source software for almost all of the functions, and well essentially all conglomerated businesses are evil, I trust Visa way more than I trust, say, Bitcoin, or BNPL vendors like Affirm, or Klarna.
I’m not going to handle cash money if I don’t have to because exchange rates are terrible and take margins at EACH transaction, are bulky, are prone to loss and are dirty, while my CC/Debit cards offer zero forex fees.
I value my privacy, and I make reasonable efforts to frustrate the algorithms’ models of me, but quit pretending we all have to be Mennonites, and purity testing your community …
As cardfire said, I just have to take my debit/credit card from where it’s usually stored. I have never lost or damadeged my phone since I got one in 98, that’s more than an hedge case.
And I can also buy on the internet without needing physical access to my cards.
The only use case for physical cards is unfortunately gas stations. So 6 times a year in average I need them.
And what did you do five years ago or ten years ago? At what point did Tap to Pay become so convenient and so essential to your life that you’re willing to give up your ability to have complete ownership and control over what’s installed on your phone rather than go back to having a card on you?
It just doesnt seem like that big of a deal to me, but then i never was able to use it anyway because ive been running grapheneOS or another custom rom since before tap2pay even existed.
Tap to pay was relatively common even 10 years ago in US cities. I’ve been tap to pay almost exclusively for 5 years.
Mind you the US is BEHIND on tap to pay technology compared to other countries.
It was not that common 10 years ago, it was only JUST being fully rolled out in the US in 2015 when they finally made it mandatory for cards to have chips in them. I guess I’m just an old man yelling at clouds here, but i just never really felt like using cash or a card was that inconvenient.
I suppose for you tap2pay is as essential as being able to run custom software on my devices is to me, I have been using custom roms since 2009 and I wouldn’t be willing to sacrifice my ability to use GrapheneOS just so i can carry one less card that i can literally fit in my phone case, but hey, different strokes ig.
It became so convenient and essential for me like 8 years ago. When I leave the house I only need my tiny phone and my house key (and sometimes my car key) and that’s it. That’s nice. I don’t want to have to carry more on top of what I already do.
I’m 31 and would need those things. Makes driving a car how I want much easier. No awkward looking mounts anywhere. Plus I use a super tiny android phone at the moment so instead of looking at a postage stamp for a map I get to look at the big head unit.
Okay I don’t drive so im a bit out of the loop on this but last time i rented a car some 15-20 years ago it had GPS built in that didn’t require connecting, it was a tablet sized interface on the console… is that not a thing anymore? Like do cars in 2025 not have functioning GPS without a phone connected to them? Thats wild if so. A 2008 Toyota Prius could have a built in console navigation system, it ran off a DVD or USB key that you got updates for by mail, and here we are in 2025 you need a phone just to power the cars computer for navigation.
car head units kind of have no knowledge about traffic, construction, and what restaurants are open
Built in gps is a bit shit now and my current car actually doesn’t have one unless i buy an overpriced encrypted sd card with the map data that if i want to update the maps for, have to buy again.
Phones and their map apps allow me to have up to date mapping that also show where there’s roadworks and closures so i can be rerouted elsewhere which is a godsend when you’re in a town or city you’re not familiar with.
Edit: built in now may not be shitter than it was but it is shitter than the new alternatives via android auto (i also don’t use Google maps by the way)
Cars still have built in GPS.
The updates are pretty terrible in my experience.
By that logic, I dont need a phone on me at all times and should just go back to a landline, pay cash for everything, and damn everything convenient.
Some of us use these things and we want to switch to a system free from powerful tech bros. People like you tell us we are a problem for wanting features. That’s a ridiculous thing.
I’m not going to screw with a cell phone while driving. Using the large screen I can quickly glance at, tap what I need or use a voice command on and get my eyes back on the road makes far more sense.
Im not saying its a problem to want features, just saying its sacraficing freedom for convience, its a choice.
If you really wanted to use a Linux phone, there are options. You would have to adapt, you would have to use non-standard solutions, but in the long run you’d have more freedom because of those sacrifices in convenience.
None of the 3 things you mention was common place 10 years ago, its not that much of a setback to carry cash or a card, or to use a dedicated device for navigation. Its fine if you dont want to do that but dont act like you can’t live without tap2pay or a voice assistant if you really wanted to.
Phone projection for navigation has been significantly better than any built-in navigation on any car I’ve ever driven. The vehicle screens are typically larger than a phone screen so that’s a really nice feature to me.
Built-in car navigation is an useless addition. Just know your city, for car’s sake!
If I was only going around my own city, I wouldn’t be in the car.
Yeah! CarPlay has been amazing to use for navigation. I wouldn’t consider a car that didn’t have something like this.
With that being said, I could be against getting a Linux phone and just leaving an old Android or iPhone in the car for CarPlay use.
I find car play awful. So I guess there is that. Half the time it does something stupid or the screen gets strange or a bunch of other problems like forcing my nav map when I want a different one.
What I want is true screen casting with touch feedback. That’s it.
Yeah, I agree that it could be improved upon, but it is easier than pairing Bluetooth since I can just plug in. Plus having the navigation on the car screen is easier to see than a phone mounted to the dash.
Once the Bluetooth is paired the one time, there is nothing to do though. Get in car, last thing I streamed is now streaming automatically.
Are those actually the only things you find lacking? If so that’s really good, practically the same as using LineageOS without any Google services.
I don’t use any of the stuff you mentioned and might have to consider Linux mobile as a daily driver if it’s that good. Especially if Google kills custom ROMs, it sounds like the people already running them would feel right at home switching to Linux mobile.
More importantly, how’s the app situation? Can people generally expect most of the desktop GTK or Qt apps they’re familiar with to be usable on a phone form factor? Is there a reliable way to run Android APKs on regular Linux now? At the very least F-droid apps?
To answer your question about Android apps, there is an application called Waydroid that can run on Linux phones. This essentially emulates Android and you can install apps on there. Some Play Store apps require access to Google Play Services, and even though MicroG tries to emulate it without being as privacy invasive, it is not perfect and some apps won’t run well or even at all.
I only use it for a few things that do not have any way to access through a web browser.
Yes, you can even run android apps on Linux mobile using waydroid or something similar. So even if you need your stopgap android apps while waiting for Linux equivalents, waydroid has your back.
As for me, I plan on using PWAs as much as possible.
Yes most native applications are responsive and adapt to mobile.
GTK has it built into it’s widgets. But some third party apps on GTK/QT may not adapt.
The capability is there though.
As someone who spent some time on the topic (result), it’s not that every new app is adaptive. Even if someone uses the nice new widgets of libadwaita (or previously libhandy (GTK3)), that app is not necessary running well on mobile if width-reqests demand a higher minimal width or content is just too wide.
The same is true for QtQuick Components or Kirigami, which are the equivalent for adaptive Qt apps.
That said, yes, many new apps developed with these technologies work fine OOTB without the developer even knowing; and if they are too wide or tall, fixing that is usually rather simple and not a full rewrite/redesign.
Everyone here just saying “oh I don’t use that therefore no one needs it and should just lose it and switch to a Linux distro” is not helping anyone. This person told us their requirements to switch. How hard is that to understand for anyone. They also told us the requirements of most of the population. This concept should not be so hard to understand. Everyone has features they need in certain products. Some people don’t care how headphones sound they just care that they make sound others are really picky audiophles. It’s all preference
Who said that? There is a lot of comments saying “I dont use those features maybe i should switch” but I dont see a single comment telling others to switch.
…they still have Linux phones?
3 - voice assistants. wether done on device or phoning into our home servers and having requests processed there, this should be doable and integrated with convenient shortcuts. Home assistant has some things like this, and there’s good-old Mycroft blowing around out there still. Siri is used every day by plenty of people and she sucks. If that’s the benchmark I think our community can easily meet that.
Of all the things that my phone is supposed to be able to do this is the one thing I never touch. It has never worked better for me than just doing it with my own two thumbs.
Does anyone actually use their voice to control their phone (not voice typing)?
Actually I don’t need any of those things you mention. It may be a mistake to assume that Linux phones should imitate Google/Apple phones.
My thoughts exactly reading this list. I don’t use any of those as-is and have zero interest. I do agree Linux phones seem a bit behind at the moment, but as soon as they’re on par with say GrapheneOS, then we’re golden.
Dunno. GPS and map apps seems pretty important for something more mobile than a laptop.
Doesn’t GPS work on Linux phones? As for map apps, OpenStreetMaps based apps are free and more acurate than google (atleast in my region), the only thing that might be lacking is realtime traffic information.
Is there an osmand app for Linux?
Not directly, here’s what we have:
https://linuxphoneapps.org/categories/maps-and-navigation/
Of these, at least PureMaps does turn-by-turn - as a no-car-person that last drove in meaningful way when paper maps where a thing, I am the wrong person to ask about car navigation stuff.
Additionally, there’s the OrganicMaps desktop flatpak (not a great experience, only good for seeing where you are) and zooming around. Fortunately, a work on a mobile-friendly Kirigami app for OrganicMaps has been funded by nlnet.
Also, runnning some web Maps in a browser (e.g., via https://linuxphoneapps.org/apps/dev.heppen.webapps/) is always an option (e.g., for browsing Google Maps for an open restaurant nearby).
One of the most useful things about OSMAnd to me is the Brouter integration for bike routes, so it would be great to see this as an option for Linux
That’s about the connection to Car Play, not GPS
It’s not that I want an imitation, but I do want certain functionalities to be available
Obviously this is subjective, but I use android auto all the time and something similar for a linux phone would be really nice for me. Don’t dismiss them just cause you wouldn’t use them
Same. Never use these things on Android.
tap to pay, voice assistants, carplay…everything I hate about modern phones. Don’t threaten me with a good time, Linux.
You may not like tap to pay or CarPlay but I and a lot of others do.
It’s a deal breaker for me to not have these two features in a product I’d like to spend hard earned money on.
