E: apparently it needs to be said that I am not suggesting you switch to Linux on your phone today; just that development needs to accelerate. Please don’t be one of the 34 people that replied to tell me Linux is not ready.
Android has always been a fairly open platform, especially if you were deliberate about getting it that way, but we’ve seen in recent months an extremely rapid devolution of the Android ecosystem:
- The closing of development of an increasing number of components in AOSP.
- Samsung, Xiaomi and OnePlus have removed the option of bootloader unlocking on all of their devices. I suspect Google is not far behind.
- Google implementing Play Integrity API and encouraging developers to implement it. Notably the EU’s own identity verification wallet requires this, in stark contrast to their own laws and policies, despite the protest of hundreds on Github.
- And finally, the mandatory implementation of developer verification across Android systems. Yes, if you’re running a 3rd-party OS like GOS you won’t be directly affected by this, but it will impact 99.9% of devices, and I foresee many open source developers just opting out of developing apps for Android entirely as a result. We’ve already seen SyncThing simply discontinue development for this reason, citing issues with Google Play Store. They’ve also repeatedly denied updates for NextCloud with no explanation, only restoring it after mass outcry. And we’ve already seen Google targeting any software intended to circumvent ads, labeling them in the system as “dangerous” and “untrusted”. This will most certainly carry into their new “verification” system.
Google once competed with Apple for customers. But in a world where Google walks away from the biggest antitrust trial since 1998 with yet another slap on the wrist, competition is dead, and Google is taking notes from Apple about what they can legally get away with.
Android as we know it is dead. And/or will be dead very soon. We need an open replacement.
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Is it possible to have my normal shitty samsung for stuff that wont work on a linux phone, and have like a pinephone for simple calls and stuff, but have them both use the same phone # ? I doubt.
Cuz when hiking or something I like a phone for safety but I dont want distractions.
It’s possible using VoIP. Have done it before.
Have you looked at the state of how open source smartphone os projects are funded? Seems like not enough people think it is currently important. i saw no bump in funding since the announcement. I would say the best bet is trying to help one of these projects with fundraising and trying to educate or convince enough people it is worth investing in. and obviously donate if you can. Although to be honest even i don’t do that (i think i invest enough in FOSS).
Once i bought a phone i tried to pick one that is friendly for FOSS projects and went with a pixel (which grapheneos recommended). so voting or signaling with your wallet is an option.
I also think something like codeberg. where anyone can be a member if he pays fees that help fund the organisation and democratically elect a board that decides what to fund could be helpful. codeberg has a pretty good organic growth so that is encouraging but i don’t know if there is enough interest in that.
Right there’s too many people shooting down the Linux phone concept within this thread 😔
So what is our alternative? I get that we need to start working on an actual viable open platform, but it seems like the difficulty is mostly hardware and device manufacturers locking the bootloader at this point, isn’t it? So is that where we need to go? To make the “Raspberry Pi” of mobile phones?
I’m happy to help, I just don’t have the free time to spearhead a whole project.
I’ve been a mobile dev for many years, I fell in love with the Nokia 810 with maemo which kinda got me started, but I never had one myself. I moved to OpenMoko and saved to buy a Neo. But then Android became big with Google’s support and all companies rushing to have an alternative to iOS with the iPhone. Back then when Android meant openness. As much as I loved the openmoko project it had plenty of issues as a daily driver, so eventually I cracked and moved to Android with a Galaxy S2, ah, the innocence back then when one could think Google was actually different… Actually doing good and creating a great Linux phone.
I absolutely agree on all your points. It is time to kill Android as a free/open source idea if it is not dead yet. And you know what, Linux is absolutely ready to substitute anything as a mobile platform. It needs more polishing in terms of UI but Maemo nearly 20 years ago already offered a great UX IMO. Thank you Microsoft and all Nokia management for destroying it.
Now, I say Linux as a mobile platform is ready… But we all know it doesn’t lack problems. What are those? The problems come from anticompetitive practices, locked hardware for chips, drivers and so on, specially all related to phone networking. The other main problem is apps which is only a small issue with all the ways there are available to make android apps run on Linux, that is… Until google comes to fuck things up with the points #3 and #4 you make. Those are the biggest threats right now, and it’s no wonder Google is doing that. They are preventing the possibility of competition arising. Like I said, I have been a dev for many years, it absolutely sucks the path all tech is taking. But there are solutions, just need to have proper anticompetitive practices and protections… At least in Europe we kinda do, but more needs to be done.
The main point is, Linux as an alternative is kinda ready, if only there was a real posible competition to be had outside of being incredibly rich.
tl;dr: buy a second hand pixel 8 and install GrapheneOS. It’s Android, but it will get you through a few years while you wait for postmarketOS to become viable as a daily driver.
The main problem is that mobile OS is simply not useful without banking or government apps and they won’t ever appear on FOSS systems because giving control to user is exactly the opposite of what’s in their interest.
I don’t understand why people need banking apps on their phone. I only ever access my banking info from the PC…
and you can do it from your phone too using a browser other than android-chrome or ios-safari.
If it is what the user wants, then it is a factor for adoption. It is a hard sell to say “yes it can only perform half the stuff you usually do with a phone, but you don’t need that anyways”. It comes across as condescending, too.
My intent is not to be condescending. It is to make people aware of the fact that they have a choice: They can choose to subject themselves to increasingly-closed and exploitative platforms, or they can choose the extremely minor (I would argue non) inconvenience of using the browser or another computer to access their banking information.
In my country, for all the banks I use, I need to have an app on my phone to access their website with my Linux computer.
So a Linux phone would need to provide this as I can’t be without access to my accounts.
I need to have an app on my phone to access their website with my Linux computer
Wat.
Yeah it’s part of the 2 factors authentification process.
Back in the days you received some card reader generating a code, but that ain’t the case anymore…
So Linux would need to have a native version of these apps or a way to efficiently emulate Android or iOS.
Those card readers are called TOTP and we can do that with apps now. Not like the specific app in question but just like a standard password manager that stores all your TOTPs.
thats pretty common, in my country as well.
like a two factor authentication. but without TOTP. but with a proprietary app by the bank provided.
Ohhh right. Yeah that’s weird. Like I said elsewhere, I would find a new bank if I had that problem.
Convenience and the ability to back outside the comforts of my own home.
I had nothing but problems with banking apps. Can’t do anything if location is off, or it doesn’t like your IP, or if it thinks you have rooting software installed. And if it doesn’t work right, no one at the bank knows how to help. I just stopped using them, eventually.
If only banks could figure out how security works…
2fa with a banking app, a lot of banks work that way
That’s insane. They don’t have TOTP? Or Passkeys? Or (God forbid) SMS or email verification? The only 2FA option is using their shitty app? I think I’d rather switch banks…
It became hard to do that in my country. I changed banks twice in a year because they became shit but even the third one uses its app as 2fa. At least it is a better bank…
None of my banks (a couple French and Belgian ones) seem to support anything but auth via app. Can’t log in on my computer without my phone.
I know Credit Mutuel can provide you a physical card with a bunch of codes of which one is selected at random at auth time
Had family use it because they had a Huawei phone
Vancity credit union uses standard TOTP. But RBC uses their stupid app where I live.
In Sweden many parts of society requires an app called BankID. We authenticate getting mail packages, sign contracts, book a time in health care, etc with this app. It’s needed everywhere. Buying a bus ticket. A phone without this app is not sufficient to function in swedish society.
Sounds a bit dystopian
A little bit yes, since the BankID is owned by private companies. There are those who are working on a free software version and some people think that the government should have an official authentication app free from private interests. But it’s been hard to make people aware and care about these issues. It’s like the xkcd worlds smallest open source violin. At the same time, many things that relate to proving that I am me has become very convenient in this society. For example I moved to a new apartment and they just sent a link to the contract and I signed it with the app and that was that, I did my taxes by just checking that the info they had was correct and signed it on my phone, etc.
Aren’t you able to get a dongle for 2fa like in Denmark? We have MitID but you can easily get a dongle so you don’t need a phone
Yes, true. But then you need to carry an extra device. I know it’s just inconvenience.
I wholeheartedly agree. More so: I do not only think, we will need a new, open mobile platform, but also feel such a great urge for it myself, that I will migrate to something alternative as soon as my mobile phone reached its EOL. I don’t know how exactly that will look like, but I am eager to accept every inconvenience to escape un-free big tech.
I’m probably going to spam this around a bit, since most people don’t seem to know about it, but a reminder that FuriLabs has a (GNU+)Linux phone with decent spec.s and the ability to run Android app.s (from what I’ve heard) pretty decently: https://furilabs.com/
Biggest drawback is it’s based on Halium. Usual growing pains of a new product/company apply but apparently the company is pretty responsive and their dev.s have worked with customers to get things like calling working with the carrier and bands of their country where it hasn’t worked before so improvements move pretty quickly.
Collection of different experiences I’ve variously seen online over the last year or so:
- https://clehaxze.tw/gemlog/2025/07-20-flx1-actually-usable-linux-phone.gmi
- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41839326
- https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1fa1ljn/furilabs_flx1/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1j46f2w/flx1_linux_phone_display_out/
- https://www.theregister.com/2025/02/03/furiphone_flx1/
I don’t own one, myself, so I can’t give any personal experience but I’ve seen it around for a few years now but most people don’t seem to even know about it. Maybe there’s a reason for that? But none I’ve ever seen anyone say.
I don’t agree!
A linux phone, or any other open source alternative, has ALWAYS been more important than the ones we’ve got. Being locked into an eco-system, has always been bad for the regular user. It’s about companies controlling people and the market, and it should never have to be a choice between a rock and a hard place.
I really wish that the Firefox phone had gained more support. And I wish that there will soon be a linux-phone for the regular person, all over the world.
But I guess people in general keep choosing to lock themselves in, by using Google and Apple…
Android has been fairly “open” to the extent that I could do all the things I felt were important. But it’s heading in a concerning direction.
How is it bad for the user? Most people don’t care and enjoy using their phones. Is it hurting them using iPhone or Android?
I already wrote why it is bad. I could mention even more areas. Don’t you know, it that why you ask? Or are you just trying to pick a fight?
I really wish that the Firefox phone had gained more support
KaiOS 4.x just dropped with Fx 128 I think. You will be on an underpowered flip phone, but that isn’t necessarily a bad thing…
It’s not a simple matter of choice. Most people aren’t invested into open source, they just want to get by and do their mundane things. Most people aren’t even aware of all the privacy stuff or abusive practices of big business, it’s usually some more outspoken tech savvy person that decides to expose what the big corps are doing. So using open source is not a choice, like you would be just choosing your preferred cereal brand, but both a technical and political act. And most people are just into the system, they aren’t aware of all malicious things around them.
Not only that, but also when companies feel threatened, they start imposing new technical and legal restrictions to make using OSS harder. Since they have more control over the whole production supply chain of devices, they have more cost effective options and even partnership with hardware vendors to make using OSS very hard or impossible.
Framework has the chance to do something really funny…
Would love to see it but that sounds significantly more difficult.
I wonder what a SIM modem expansion card would look like
I’ve seen them before but so far none first-party.
Hold up, there are third-party SIM card expansions‽
I don’t have a Framework laptop (yet) but once I’ve got the money together I really want one!
Looking it up, there’s a discussion on Framework’s Discourse, but nothing shipping yet.
The best hope at the moment is to buy and connect an LTE M.2 key card that connects over USB-A, which would work on any laptop, come to think of it.
Yeah there’s nothing shipping. The ones I’ve seen were DIY.
Yeah I wish Framework, Tuxedo or Stillbook produced a Linux phone🤞
They’d have a better chance banding together with other companies and communities and pool resources into one device/os combo.
Definitely going to be trying for some kind of linux phone for my next one.
Debating biting the bullet on the ~$800 cost of a fairphone.
i know it is still google, but i just started searching ebay for a used pixel 9 - looks like they are around $400-500 (pixel 10 came out last month). i figure getting graphene os on one of these may be an inexpensive path forward… still looking for good options, tho.
i’ll have to check out fairphone. i remember something about them not being available in the US, but that may be old news.
There’s a distributor, Murena, selling the Fairphone 4 and Fairphone 6 in the U.S. now. The Fairphone isn’t fully usable with Linux yet, though. Calls, camera, and GPS all still apparently aren’t working 100% with postmarket OS. I’m not aware of any other distribution that does any better. https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Category:Fairphone
Ubuntu Touch supports the FP4 & FP5 quite well: https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io/
Oh nice! That is very encouraging.
oof, no wifi is kind of a dealbreaker for me; i have a home server and really dont want to have to be VPN’d into my home all the time :(
looks like fairphone 6 doesnt have much support on postmarket yet, but i’ll keep an eye on it - ty <3
Yeah, I don’t think the Fairphone 6 is quite ready. In fact, since none of the previous Fairphone models ever got to full Linux usability, I don’t really expect it to happen.
I think the best option – and really the only option – right now is the Furilabs FLX1. I’m planning on getting one soon.
I want one, too, as soon as the second batch is available. I hope there are some left after all the pre-orders are sent out.
I was looking into Fairphone and got sketched out, they do not really seem particularly trustworthy or competent.
For example: https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134-devices-lacking-standard-privacysecurity-patches-and-protections-arent-private
Oof
It would be cool to see people move beyond the standard smartphone and into some sort of hotspot and linux based palmtop or umpc like setup
I had something like that in the early 2000s with a nokia n800 and it worked well enough I’m sure it would be even better now
Meh, this will just push more people to not install gapps. None of these issues affect folks who don’t install gapps.
The best apps are on fdroid, anyway. If I was a Dev I wouldn’t bother putting it on Google play, anyway
None of these issues affect folks who don’t install gapps.
It absolutely does, if you actually read the OP.
How? Nobody buys Samsung or OnePlus locked down crap anyway
I don’t even know how to answer that. Nothing in the OP has anything to do with Google apps.
Samsung is the largest android manufacturer by a wide margin.
How delusional are you? Samsung holds over 20% of the worldwide mobile phone market, only beat by Apple by a few percent.
And that is ignoring the obvious trend from Google to lock down the Android ecosystem to only them and their partners. If they have their way, they will make 3rd party ROMs nearly impossible, block all 3rd party apps, and close the door on fdroid. Maybe what has been done so far doesn’t affect you, but if no one gets in their way, it absolutely will and soon.
While I get what you mean, I think people who make their income from android apps will definitely want to put them on Google play to charge money :P
Maybe. The only apps I ever bought were off Google Play, anyway. Threema and OsmAnd.
Would a pixel phone running GOS be future proofed, or one day Google can just push out some hidden updates that prevent you from running it at all?
Well if your not running Google’s OS. how can they push updates. My issue with GrapheneOS is the trackers. It well not warn if trackers are following you and if you have trackers you well spam everyone with unknown tracker following you.
Tracker blocking uses flawed heuristics. The only methods that are typically used are static lists which is just badness enumeration. There is nothing stopping the app/service from sending the data down a different domain that isn’t blocked or a domain that can’t be blocked without breaking the service.
Adding to that, how do we even decide what is a “tracker”? What is the definition? Some might say it includes all telemetry or crashlytics. Are those inherently malicious?
I don’t think it would make sense for GrapheneOS to include something flawed like a “tracker blocker” that lulls people into a false sense of security. They use robust and meaningful methods for improving the privacy and security of the OS.
I mean Google could theoretically decide to stop open development entirely or lock the bootloader, and that would be the end of that.
Send me back to the 90s with the flip phone. Old Nokia with a changeable battery, no malicious firmware that has spyware built in. It’s just a phone.
no malicious firmware that has spyware built in.
Sure about that?
spyware in a 90s phone ? Where it was even a miracle to be able to connect to Internet ? Yeah, they were able to pinpoint your position using the cell towers (which were less than today so not that precise) and the telecom know who and when you were calling but other than that…
Trust devices that are open and run open firmwares not old devices
True but I was only pointing out that what is a problem in modern smartphone was not a problem in older dumb phone since they lack the functionalities (and the supporting infrastructure)
You are assuming it wasn’t a problem back then
It is a little difficult to spy on phone owner (except knowing where the phone is located) when everything you have is SMS and a memory measured in Kb, leaving aside that every phone had its own firmware incompatible with everyone else.
Of course telecom companies always know where you were and who you call, like today, but at most they can tap and read the SMS.For context, GPRS was rolled out around 2001, before that you basically have not any data connection if not plugging to the phone an external modem.
That’s just all electronics outside of Linux at this point.
i tried to do this recently but it created a lot of friction in daily life. once the masses have moved on, it’s hard to keep the old stuff, sadly. it’s really frustrating.
I get by alright without a smart phone. Over the years I’ve seen more and more “just scan this QR code to do such-and-such”, and I ignore them. I think you’re right that it is a lot of added friction compared to using a phone. A lot of stuff is instantly at your fingertips with your phone.
But to be honest, I really truly think that a bit of friction is a good thing. Without it, we just slide helplessly into oblivion. Or, less metaphorically speaking, the friction turns an automatic decision into a deliberate one. The friction pushes people to think about their actions and choices a little bit. And that’s generally a good thing - even if its a little bit harder.
for me it was less about things being a little bit harder and more about being unable to travel from the airport to lodging or work offices without paying out of my own pocket, which I couldn’t afford anyhow.
typically I would just buy a cheap prepaid stock android phone for this and use as much fake info as I could.
Yep, I tried going the dumbphone route and lasted about a month. I travel a fair bit for work, and it’s almost impossible now without a smartphone.
