Oh yeah I have to deal with software that noticeably changes multiple times per decade! Spoooooky!

Is that some meme? My system has been rock solid for years.

Thanks, this is a much more nuanced take than what I’m used to.

Regarding thinlinc: They seem to be on it: https://community.thinlinc.com/t/wayland-tigervnc-and-thinlinc-the-future-of-remote-desktops-in-linux/1755.

Regarding fragmented support: is that true? Why would some CAD software not work everywhere when most other software does? Does the thing really need some specific niche Wayland protocol that’s only implemented on one DE for the time being? And if yes, will that protocol really be the first relevant one to not be implemented across the board? I feel like you’re conjuring to a problem that doesn’t necessarily exist. Do you have an actual concrete example that goes beyond “the subwindow placement for this multi-window program is a bit wonky without impeding usability in the slightest”?

Maybe you didn’t do it right. Everything Wayland I ever complained about is fixed now.

I fell like if you had put this list into a Wayland protocol extension request, then put a link to that request into KDE’s showstoppers list, this would have been fixed long long ago.

OK, let’s see if I remember well:

OSS is obsolete.

ALSA is a basic primitive way to do play audio streams integrated into the kernel.

PA is an abstraction on top of ALSA that helps with network stuff, per-application volume control, …

JACK is an alternative to ALSA/PA for low latency professional use cases: you can plumb it yourself, connect inputs/outputs, …

PW is an efficient implementation of both PA and JACK, which is better than the original PA in latency.

Which isn’t true, at least one of them has Wayland support already, the rest is following suit.

Yeah. In the first months, there were clipboard issues. Until 2 years or so ago for me, screen sharing wasn’t perfect.

I searched for or filed issues whenever I could, and there’s not a trace of a problem left.

I wonder if these people just complain on social media and give up immediately without informing anyone relevant and then feign surprise when shit’s not magically fixed later.

You’re so right:

• $thing isn’t perfectly complete so I won’t switch over my project
• but without your project, $thing can’t be perfectly complete
• idc lol

Pretty good for mostly volunteers, hampered by recalcitrant project leads that actively sabotage any progress and consider “told you so” appropriate.

If anyone cared enough, they could have made that list 17 years ago, and pushed through a set of protocol extensions that allow talon to work.

Why did nobody do that?

It’s crazy to me that people complain now. It’s far too late for complaints.

I don’t get what you mean. Isn’t the list just a status quo and not how things are supposed to be forever? What’s “hilarious” about somebody painstakingly going through all the features and checking how close they are?

Like I wouldn’t put it past GNOME to give up on interoperability at the slightest inconvenience, but I don’t see that here?

Yes, they were supposed to reach out at some point in the last 17 years, idk what to tell you.

Someone did it for them even: https://github.com/splondike/wayland-accessibility-notes/blob/main/talon-requirements.md

What made you think that that’s a relevant answer?

I specifically said PULSEAUDIO is here to stay, you know, as opposed to manually managing a trillion ALSA devices.

Then I mentioned PipeWire to placate the nitpickers who would point out that PulseAudio (the implementation) isn’t actually around anymore, only the device management paradigm.

And somehow you honed into that word, completely ignored everything around it, and said some stuff that sounds vaguely related to the topic at hand, yet has no actual meaning.

Why?

Wayland compositors lack the APIs necessary for Talon and Wayland support is not planned.

Sucks that they just claim that and give up instead of trying to work together with Wayland compositors to make this happen.

I don’t understand why they would drop you like this.

It’s understandable on some level: if you’re suddenly no longer part of the majority tribe you know you’ll get fewer bug fixes and so on.

So bullying and FUDing people into staying with your tribe could pay off.

What I don’t get is how they don’t realize that they’ve lost. PulseAudio (through PipeWire) is here to stay. Systemd is here to stay. Wayland is here to stay.

Maybe they just like being contrarian if they can’t win.