- cross-posted to:
- linux@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- linux@lemmy.ml
Like y’all keep posting about it, praising it, giving it free advertisement, and what not.
But the dev is a fascist, the discord server is a fascist bar, and the project thus is fascist.
I’ve met people who were harassed, I browsed through now deleted messages of Vaxry using slurrs and more.
So I wonder is if the people who post constantly about it know and are complicit, or just don’t know and would act otherwise?
It gets tiring to see the project be given “fame” when I know the roots of the plants are founded in toxicity & abuse.
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is this the part where i get to smugly use i3? :P
Well my laptop is facist hyprland and I am writing on tankie Lemmy.
And don’t give a f*ck about it. Because it’s open source. And devs can do whatever they want, the same as users can do what they want.
If someone is unhappy with the devs, fork it and do your own stuff with it. Nobody cares.
Wow, the moment someone who drives a critical opinion gets upvoted, comment gets removed
Don’t say nobody cares. I care. Fuck fascists.
Nikola Tesla and Thomas Edison could have both had kids in their basement, would that stop me from using electricity absolutely fucking not, someone invents something I like, and is useful to me, I use it, I don’t fucking care what he thinks about anything, he could be best mates with fucking Kanye and make music about how he fucked his cousin, I’d still use it, it’s open source and useful, he works on it full time from what it seems and maintains it for himself and not you lot and your huge fucking egos who think everything revolves around you. He wanted to make something he’d find useful and decided to share it with the world.
Would you stop using anything mass manufactured, just because Henry Ford, who did in fact have actual Nazi ideals, hated Jews and worker’s rights, invented the conveyor belt, and call anybody that uses mass manufactured items a fascist?
i hate to be a pedant (who am i kidding, i love to be) but they didn’t really invent electricity, so much as discover it and improve on existing technologies. ben franklin was writing about lightning rods a century before. also autoerotic asphyxiation. that’s true, look it up.
You call man a bigot and you make a drama publicly because you can’t stand how he can have a different opinion or way of living than you, right? Guess that makes you… a bigot? 😉
I made myself a promise to donate to Hyprland and Vaxry every time I see bad press against him. And I just made another payment. He makes good software and this is something he should concentrate on and just like many others on this thread: I don’t care if he has one opinion or the other. You don’t like it? Just don’t engage with him, his Discord or Hyprland, let the guy have his space.
Or make another bad press and make me donate again, I’ll happily do that💪🏻
Owning the libs by giving a fascist transphobe all my money
I wouldn’t’ve gunned down those minors from ethnic minorities if the leftist SJWs didn’t have so many pronouns!!!
You also donate to the KKK? How’s your investment in anti-trans communities going so far, what’s the ROI? Happy with all the hatred you are fueling?
If you honestly throw KKK and Vaxry into the same bucket then I guess it speaks for yourself: as for me, I’m not going deeper into conversation if this is how it starts ¯_(ツ)_/¯
I didn’t do it. He did that himself, he [pretty much, in other words] said:
“I’m fine with a genocidal transphobe homophobe racist antisemite literal murderer being welcomed of my software community if he was alive now. As long as he keeps his crimes against humanity off the main focus: my project and my project alone.”
Find a better cause than this nothing burger. Literally nothing better to do but complain about some old discussion. God forbid you forgive and move on. No you said something that offended me years ago and I will not forgive such a terrible transgression. This 'look at me" posting is so tiring. Look at how great I am. Don’t worry everyone I’ll fall on the sword and call out the bad people.
but complain about some old discussion
I wouldnt think 2 years is old, and its not like he changed his mind since then, in any capacity. what he did can’t really be forgiven, except if you don’t care about the safety of your peers. yes, I said safety, because people like vaxry often find joy in harming… anyone they don’t like.
How long is enough, apologies dont matter either right? If you actually spend the time to read the infraction and response you’ll see people are just bored and looking to make themselves feel important by randomly posting stuff like this unprompted.
How long is enough,
well 2 years is obviously not old. 5 maybe.
apologies dont matter either right?
as I remember their “apology” was a very unnatural, visibly forced and offended thing
Forgive my ignorance, but what did he do?
Repeat after me:
“You do not support a project or its dev in any way by just using the software you got for free.”
In fact, unless you donate, advertize or contribute to the project, you’re a net drain on its resources.
Great, so you agree with OP, who was criticizing people who are:
posting about it, praising it, giving it free advertisement, and what not
I don’t disagree exactly, but I’d argue that you’re contributing to the project even if you’re just reporting bugs or helping others with it on e.g. Lemmy.
I could see avoiding all of that pragmatically in order to use some obscure, critical software, but not something you use every day and for which there are reasonable alternatives.
Vaxry is not a very smart guy if he’s like “What do you mean CoC violations?” when he has an entire blog page up about how he’s being persecuted that he starts with a defense of calling people the R-slur online.
https://blog.vaxry.net/articles/2023-inclusiveActivists
The entire argument is that you can’t make an exclusionary space for people (no definition of what that means) but you should be able to call them slurs. No wonder CoC violations apply. Who would want anything to do with him?
The “paradox of tolerance” is a concept I love to bring up time and time again.
No tolerance for the intolerant, lest intolerants take over tolerant spaces and turn them intolerant.
Social contract not a moral imperative.
Or seen as a repeated prisoners dilemma, play tit-for-tat, or maybe (N*tit)-for-tat (where N gives a ‘punitive’ damages expectation for breching the accepted norms).
Quite a lot of lefties don’t like thinking about what is “rational” though because “people aren’t cognitively rational” so rationality based social equilibia can obviously never have any relevance.
Can you elaborate on the last part of your comment? I’m not sure I fully understand, though it sounds like we mostly agree.
I’m not sure why you threw in that digression about political leaning at the end, though. It makes your last statement pretty vague.
I don’t see it as a paradox, but as rational. But there are people who I think do hold tolerance as some sort of moral compulsion, and get offended by the notion that it might just emerge from people figuring out how and why to cooperate, without any high and mighty guiding morality.
These people will also object to using rational models to understand/describe human behaviours, because they can point to many examples of people acting irrationally. Many of these examples are psychology lab “experiments” so are irrelevant to the real world. But plenty of real examples of things like loss aversion and risk (mis)percepion, sunk costs, time-inconsistent decisions and so on where individuals clearly do behave “irrationally”.
I often come across people who believe that this undermines anything any “rational model” has to say. And so I do try to use such reasoning with those people, or even challenge those observations with examples where collective rationality does seem to emerge as a social (not individual) phenomenon, then I’ll be derided as some sort of neo-conservative capitalist fascist or whatever.
So I find that it’s generally good practice to chuck in some insult about one type of political zealot or other every so often, so as to quickly establish where I stand. I’d rather be vague than waste my breath with zealots.
bruh
It is a quandary.
I would not support the project monetarily because I would not want to fund the primary persons behind it.
But Hyprland is FOSS is it not? Someone could fork the project to resolve the issue you are describing.
If this does not resolve the issue in your opinion (as you seem to have concerns with the “roots” of the project), and if we go with that logic, we should be just as opposed to using the modern “Jerry” gas can as it was a Nazi invention originally.
Both good and evil people invent things - whether the thing that is invented is itself reflective or could be considered supportive of the inventors ideals varies.
But Hyprland is FOSS is it not? Someone could fork the project to resolve the issue you are describing.
I feel like this is kind of a misnomer about how FOSS software gets developed. for one the Vaxry guy is basically the only active dev of Hyprland and if you look at for example the GitHub contribution breakdown he has worked much more on Hyprland stuff than all the other contributors combined. Since this kind of work is essentially free labor for no return simply forking the project and continuing Hyprland without him is infeasible IMO - other Wayland compositors already exist, like sway or niri and some even try to fill the same niche as Hyprland like swayfx (i.e. eye candy effects and smooth animations), so I don’t really see a reason to fork Hyprland when those other compositors can do similar things while already being in active development.
If this does not resolve the issue in your opinion (as you seem to have concerns with the “roots” of the project), and if we go with that logic, we should be just as opposed to using the modern “Jerry” gas can as it was a Nazi invention originally.
Hyprland is actively being developed by a fascist and that fascist is actively being platformed within the FOSS community through it. I think that is also what OP is trying to say, it doesn’t matter if Hyprland is “good” or “bad” software.
I see. Thanks for expanding on the conversation with this thoughtful reply.
Your reply was also appreciated, thank you.
What’s Hyprland?
yeah the only thing it makes me think about is the bbc special with tom baker talking about what hypertext could be like before it was really anything.
its a window manager for Linux
I see. Thanks!
I don’t really care, the Lemmy devs also got some funky political opinions but I’m still here
at the end of the day software is software and this stuff is all free and open source anyway
lemmy is not a great comparison, there’s like 3 alternatives, there are tens if not more hyprland alternatives.
i don’t think software is just software, why would this tech be exempt? pilot-less aircrafts is just tech, just like software, but we do remember that drones bomb people. supporting problematic developers is not “as bad” as building killing machines, but it’s the same principle: looking the other way when it’s convenient. we should aim to ostracize and isolate problematic devs, and it starts by not using their software, because doing so gives them clout and relevance
What other well supported wayland tiled window managers are out there with smooth animations? I would check them out for sure, but I only know about hyprland.
i’m not on wayland so i can’t try any of these, but there are lists you can browse from (https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Wayland#Compositors for example)
you are setting quite restrictive and arbitrary limits
well supported
what do you mean?
with smooth animations
what counts as “smooth animations”?
if your message boils down to “something which looks really good to me and that has a discord i can go into and ask for help”, you may have set the requirements tight enough to only include hyprland, but that’s not a valid excuse in my opinion to avoid boycotting problematic developers
I agree they’re restrictive and arbitrary reasons and they’re also the reasons every single hyprland user has for chosing it. You have a different set of arbitrary reasons for setting your system up the way you like. It’s called a “preference”.
In order to fulfill this preference, is it ok for me to fork hyprland and call it something else? Or do I need to rewrite hyprland’s functionality from scratch and pretend it was all my idea? Can I reference hyprland during the rewrite or does it need to be clean room? Should i make a fork available for people who disapprove of the hyprland devs? But what if I’m not a good enough person? Oof, just noticing, i forgot to check the ideologies of each maintainer of the thousands of packages in my system.
I think it’s possible that the boycott idea makes more sense in a capitalist setting than a communist one. The reason we stop supporting JK Rowling or Chick-Fil-A is because being a customer directly translates to their success and thus the success of their ideology. But no one is making a profit from developing and maintaining a Linux package. In fact, typically the more people use your package, the more thankless work falls on you.
I’m simply interested in having control over my PC, and the FOSS community exists to exchange learnings and code to enable each other to do that. And like all of science throughout history, there are problematic people who contribute useful ideas, and I think we would be cutting off our own noses to reject those ideas just because they come from people we otherwise disagree with.
preference is s weak motivation honestly. i prefer google maps yet i still don’t want google and make do with OSM
I’m simply interested in having control over my PC
but you don’t, you still depend on vaxry. can you maintain, update, fix and recompile hyprland yourself? if so, fork it and start boycotting vaxry. if not, what control are you talking about? it’s just preference
this whole argument to me sounds like “i prefer a WM with smooth animations and an active discord so im going to overlook the problematic maintainer im going to give clout to and start depending on”
Fr, you can disagree with someone and still make use of the software they create. Especially because you’re not even directly supporting them monetarily.
Great, yeah, both sides are the same huh? Grow a spine.
Nobody said both sides are the same. Grow a spine
I’d rather not get banned from this community by arguing that.
At any rate that’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying the political views don’t matter, the software does and its great
Luckily there’s programming.dev which I hope will be the go to lemmy for programming
Too bad it’s American.
Oh :/
The software itself does not harm anyone, considering it is free software and nobody has to contribute money to use it, i don’t care. If you feel so outraged by it, fork the software and develop your own version. At least with free software you have that option, as opposed to proprietary software where you have no option.
I’m not using Hyperland personally, but i’m not opposed to people using it.
Friends don’t let friends use the shitty fash compositor <3
Friend shouldn’t control what you do, but ok…
Nobody said that, don’t put words in my mouth <3
The main reason why I use open source is precisely because I don’t need or want to worry about this crap. The software is as much property of humanity as it is of the creator, it is basically just knowledge
This! If it is Free Software, it respects everyone’s freedom. If I don’t like the developer, I will not buy them a coffee. If I don’t like the software practices of the developer, a fork is in order (e.g. Oracle with OpenOffice --> LibreOffice)
Absolutely this. Too many people think that because you use some open source software from some fascist dev that “obviously you’re fascist, too”.
Bigotry: obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.
Hating on Hyprland users that know what’s going on but still really like the software fits this definition. Plus, isn’t the biggest kick in the face having the exact people you hate use and enjoy your software?
This is exactly why I switched from PolyMC to Prism Launcher. The PolyMC dev was a fascist prick and an anti-gay/trans activist. His fear was that PolyMC was “going to get taken over by the gays due to the name having Poly in it (as in polysexual)”, so he started banning all the devs who disagreed with him or even made a joke about it.
Those devs forked the project and, to rub salt in the wound, made the icon rainbow. But guess what? Its the same software. They forked it because they still liked it and wanted to use it. The software itself had absolutely nothing to do with the dev.
I got the impression that the PolyMC situation was quite different, with that developer masking it and doing a minority of the work, but after one change made by the rest of the developers they snapped, used their control over the repository to remove the rest of the maintainers and take sole control over the repository.
I was aware of some shenanigans and hostility from PolyMC and never used it, but I got the impression there were no major outward signs before that happened?
There really wasn’t a lot of ramp up to it but there were Discord screenshots of his toxic personality being put down in r/feedthebeast at the time and (iirc) one of the devs that actually did do work on the project quoted the whole “poly” thing. Dunno if there was a screen of it, though.
But even before that, there was apparently some horrible stuff that MultiMC did that resulted in PolyMC and other forks in the first place. That whole application has a shady past, tbh.
I’m just trying to say, use Hyprland if you like Hyprland. There WILL be a fork of it someday. That is always guaranteed to happen when a dev becomes a piece of shit. Its all about when it is going to happen, but by all means move over to the fork when it does.
As long as its open source and money does not change hands, you are in no way directly supporting a fascist dev. Once that software is on your PC that software is yours to do what you want with it, not the dev’s. By all means, design your Hyprland as pro-trans with trans flag colors. I endorse that wholeheartedly, in fact. 🏳️⚧️
I just don’t like when people get auto-labeled for something they use or do. Its basic stereotyping and it drives me nuts. A lot of people just don’t want to give the benefit of the doubt to others before even getting to know them. Getting branded because of a piece of software you enjoy is just… its up there, at any rate. I really can’t put words to how frustrated it makes me. I don’t even use Hyprland (I did try it, though). I run KDE because I’m a dirty mouse user. I’m much too smoothbrain for a tiling WM.
I thought this was going to be a new article or news, but it’s from April 9, 2024.
I think this situation has been picked over and rehashed now to the point where anyone who was going to change their behaviour will have already done so. If there is no update on the situation then all I see is you dragging up drama from a year ago.
I don’t remember hearing about it before. I might have, but even if so the reminder is helpful.
My first time hearing about it, too
