After creating a fresh installation of Ubuntu 24.04, I installed DEB Firefox from APT by following Mozilla’s instructions from here. But I noticed that it was secretly replaced with Snap Firefox. I was able to verify this by checking the About Firefox page. This is the third time I noticed this.
I’ve had it happen too. In fact it is what prompted me to move away from Kubuntu.
They have been doing this for a while.
Would recommend you to stick to MX,Mint or if you care only about stability and not Updates debian.
I battled that for about a year and then ditched Debian based diatros altogether.
OpenSUSE ftw
You could have gone pure Debian. There are no snap shenanigans over there :)
OpenSuse is also a great pick tho!
Not secretly, no.
Since when this became a known thing? I’m aware that the snap version is installed when the user is trying to install the deb version of Firefox by running,
sudo apt install firefox
But I never heard that the installed DEB version of Firefox is replaced by Snap version of Firefox.
The deb version is a pointer to the snap in their repos. Nothings being replaced, it no longer exists. The deb version of Firefox in Ubuntu repos is a wrapper that installs snap and has no binaries in it. Has been for 3 years or so.
It’s more than that. Ubuntu copies the Debian repos and then applies their own changes on top. Debian has a native (DEB) Firefox package, so Ubuntu specifically has to remove it for every new version.
At least a few years. I switched to Linux a year ago and that was a huge consideration for me when choosing Debian over Ubuntu.
Well then you haven’t been following it closely. As someone else said, the reason is simple: the Snap version is more recent (like it or not) and in Ubuntu
apt
is configured to take into account Snap packages.Canonical added an epoch prefix to the firefox version number. Because that epoch (1) is higher than the implicit default (0), the official ubuntu dummy package is always considered to be a higher version than the official Mozilla package. apt doesn’t look at snap packages, it installs the deb, but the ubuntu deb just runs
snap install firefox
and basically nothing else.
I had it happen a few times. I moved away from Kubuntu as a result.
But it’s not obvious either. When I say ‘apt install firefox’, specially after adding their repository to sources.list, I’d expect to get a .deb from mozilla. Silently overriding my commands rubs me in a very wrong way.
It takes a little more than just adding a different repository to your package manager, you have to tell apt which to prefer:
echo ’
Package: *
Pin: origin packages.mozilla.org
Pin-Priority: 1000Package: firefox*
Pin: release o=Ubuntu
Pin-Priority: -1’ | sudo tee /etc/apt/preferences.d/mozillaTrue, but more often than not mozilla should have newer packages on their repository than any distribution. And the main problem still is that Ubuntu changed apt and threw snap in to the mix where it doesn’t belong.
I’m not disagreeing with anything you’ve said?
I’m saying that just adding Mozilla’s PPA to your sources won’t change apt’s behavior when installing Firefox unless you tell apt to prefer the package offered by the Mozilla PPA.
As someone who uses Kubuntu as a daily driver, I’m well aware of the snap drama and have worked around it using the method I pasted above.
Even though it’s an underhanded move by Cannonical, I’m still glad the OS is open source since it makes the workaround so trivial.
Exactly. Enough with the inane conspiracism.
They started doing that in a couple of years back. Saw quite a bit of backlash in the Linux news media at the time.
That snap shit was so bad it made me switch to Arch.
I’m aware that when the user runs(without adding Mozilla’s apt repository),
sudo apt install firefox
the snap version of Firefox is installed. But I never heard that, though APT is configured to install Firefox from Mozilla’s repository, the DEB version will be uninstalled and the Snap version will be installed.
Firefox now has instructions on their “Debian-based” install section about pinning their repo over Canonical’s so that doesn’t happen.
Because you’re right, Canonical does think so highly of their product that they will constantly attempt to undermine other options against your will.
Yes, this is known. They do the same for Chromium. If you want a browser from ubuntu, it’s going to be a snap.
w3m
is a proper deb 😛Looks like only firefox, chromium-browser and thunderbird are these dummy transitional packages. There’s a
fwupd-snap
, but the defaultfwupd
is a full deb.
No defending Ubuntu but wasn’t this clarified to be Mozilla’s deploying it via Snap and requesting to remove the apt installation?
It was a collaboration, although I’m having trouble finding a source for who wanted it first.
Have you correctly set your apt preferences? I didn’t have any issues anymore since I’ve done that.
It’s a known and documented issue that Ubuntu does. They secretly install the Snap version, even if you tried to install the Deb package. This is an issue since years: https://askubuntu.com/questions/1345385/how-can-i-stop-apt-from-installing-snap-packages (posted 3 years and 7 months ago)
My problem is not like that. I’m aware that when the user runs(without adding Mozilla’s apt repository),
sudo apt install firefox
the snap version of Firefox is installed. But I never heard that, though APT is configured to install Firefox from Mozilla’s repository, the DEB version will be uninstalled and the Snap version will be installed.
Yes, that’s the exact issue. Ubuntu does that for years. You use apt to install deb, but Ubuntu installs silently the Snap version. The article I linked was talking about that almost 4 years ago and talks about how to stop that. It’s an old issue not many are aware off.
It is one of the reasons many people turn away from Ubuntu.
At this point, why is anyone using Ubuntu for desktop? You have soooo many options
Because not everyone wants to spend their time babysitting an OS and Ubuntu has a 20-year track record of dependability.
I’m a relative Linux noob and Manjaro Arch works perfectly for me, no babysitting required.
While I get that, Debian fits that role extremely well.
I was waiting for this! Debian is great. I used it for years. But IMO it’s not polished enough for normies. The website is fugly and the onboarding funnel assumes too much knowledge. The installer, last time I tried it, was glitchy and unintuitive. I think that techies underestimate how offputting even ostensibly minor issues like this will be to ordinary users. Also, Debian has a ton of unmaintained packages (altho I gather that something is being done about this). Debian is fundamentally amateur in the best and unfortunately worst senses. I think a Linux flagship distro needs to be more pro and systematically thought out. For that, it’s always going to help to have a big company or organization behind it.
The installer, last time I tried it, was glitchy and unintuitive.
I used it a few months ago and it was pretty smooth.
I have a laptop that needs a proprietary wifi driver. I just “love” it when the debian net installer works out of the box, but after first boot wifi dies because the driver is missing in the installed instance :D I need to find a lan cable, do some athletics to get to the router, then install the driver and only then I can connect via wifi :D
And there are still other options!
I agree Ubuntu is the easy choice. You can totally find a desktop you don’t have to baby sit, but Ubuntu has the marketing to help you find them and feel safe.
I’ve had no issues with fedora, I’ve been running it for about a year.
Exactly. But I would go further. I think Linux needs flagship distros with big solid institutions behind them, and it needs us to support those distros by using them. I know this is not an popular opinion here.
I see those flagship distros precisely as Fedora and Ubuntu.
Red Hat and Ubuntu.
I’m a bit of an anarchist so I disagree on principal lol, but I do agree that that would help Linux usurp windows.
My fear is that it would just then become windows within a decade or less. Getting big and institutional may work out. I’ve just seen a lot of cases go sour.
To me the beauty of Linux is that it is less connected to large impersonal capitalistic structures. That’s why it feels different from Windows.
I think fedora is best for user that want a recent kernel and reasonably fast update cycle (like not a year behind) but are not interested in rolling (for whatever reason ever).
I love rolling and had no issues due to rolling yet
Unfortunately it’s my only option at work because my employer wants the security of Ubuntu pro
Wasn’t that one of the main critiques of snap/ubuntu/canonical a few years ago already?
Among my personal dislike for its shade of purple, that has been my primary reason to not recommend ubuntu for a while, at least.
It’s a dilemma; most Windows and Mac users would benefit from that kind of locked-down, idiot-proof format. Even having the choice of multiple repos is too much for them. So while I personally hate it, that’s what most people (i.e. non-Linux users) want and need.
I recommend Ubuntu as the beginner distro for everyone, but with the hope that they eventually drop the training wheels and switch to Debian.
That’s why I recommend mint. You have all the benefits of ubuntu but without the corporate stuff. And flatpak instead of snap.
Ubuntu uses Snap as first-class method to install software. So if a piece of software is available as DEB or Snap, Ubuntu will always use Snap.
I’m aware that when the user runs(without adding Mozilla’s apt repository),
sudo apt install firefox
the snap version of Firefox is installed. But I never heard that, though APT is configured to install Firefox from Mozilla’s repository, the DEB version will be uninstalled and the Snap version will be installed.
Thanks. I hate snaps. I’ll probably just stop using Ubuntu.
Why?
They’re slower than a native app, and they don’t integrate as well with the rest of the system.
thanks! didn’t know about that
Some more reasons are explained here: https://askubuntu.com/questions/1029610/if-a-package-is-available-as-both-a-deb-and-a-snap-which-method-is-preferrable
I personally hate the fact that they bloat up the block devices so much
Jesus Christ this is Windows-tier insane computing behaviour from Ubuntu. Fuck Ubuntu.
Yes. That was the last straw for me. I switched to debian stable, and haven’t looked back since
Hah! Me too, exactly this.
Me too
Debian will have snaps and flatpaks and all the same insecure black-box drek.
Given how much they violate ISO27002, I can’t see them ever being run in a regs-compliant shop.
I feel like snaps are black boxier tho.
I suspect that what’s happened is you installed the apt version, then at some point upgraded it and there was a version in the main repo that had a higher version number and installed the snap version. If two repositories both have a package with the same name, and no other rules in place, the higher version number wins.
If that is the case, you need to pin the firefox package to the mozilla repository. You can find more details here: https://wiki.debian.org/AptConfiguration
This explains situation.
The whole apt ecosystem is kind of a mess, if you ask me. Debian stable updates on archeological timescales, Debian testing just isn’t a very good rolling release disto, you’re better off with Arch or OpenSuse Tumbleweed if you want to actually use a rolling release as a daily driver, Ubuntu is a mess of annoying corporate decisions I hate from Canonical, and all the others are all just kind of disjointed in how they try to fix those issues.
My personal favorite is Mint. They just try to make Ubuntu with some classic, boring desktop design and minus the more controversial Canonical decisions, but obviously that’s not everyone’s cup of tea. I dunno, there is no perfect distro, you just have to find the one that for you it takes the least amount of effort to fix. Ubuntu really just kind of makes it a pain in the butt to fix all their weirdness though.
Debian testing just isn’t a very good rolling release disto
What makes you say that?