Be careful now! His coworkers will act most silently.
This whole article/blog post reads as “How dare this person follow the law. ;(”
I really don’t understand the pushback on this one person for submitting the change request. When it is the lawmaker that put this law into place that we should be criticizing. The post repeatedly uses how the contributer said that the change was “hilariously pointless and ineffective.” As some sort of gotcha as to why the merge should not have been accepted but does not explain why the maintainers should not follow the law other than “law bad”.
It also consistently calls out the various peoples’ places of work and experience as some sort of boogeyman for why they should not be allowed to contribute to open source. If these people were universally accepted to be bad actors in the community then they would not be accepted as reviewers for these projects. This just attacks their character to try to prove a point.
“How dare this person follow the law. ;(”
The law requires an operating system provider to provide the age.
Is systemd an OS provider? NO.
They didn’t do it for the law. Especially since the law doesn’t require to do it before next year.
“The law”, what law? Why should my computer in fucking Canada ask for age verification?
Because big tech and the us government want to complete the panopticon and the people queued up to approve his change worked at MSFT?
This shit needs to be stopped cold. Mark Zuckerberg doesn’t get to buy control of Linux just because he bought control of Gavin Newsom.
Even if systemd is managed by someone outside of Cali that does not automatically except them from all Cali laws. When a person decides to distribute software that comes with the legal responsibility of the locations where the software is distributed.
Why does your computer need to ask for your full name or office location? You don’t have any issues with those fields? Or is it because you understand that those are optional just like this field is?
If you don’t want to put your bday in then don’t. fork the software and remove what you don’t want. That is the great thing about open-source.
If you don’t trust the maintainer of systemd then why are you using their software in the first place?
You are right it is obvious that zuck wants to hoover up as much data as possible. But what if, instead of this being a data gathering ploy (since the law forbids the data to be used for anything else), this is them trying to put the responsibility of controlling what children look at online onto the parents?
While I don’t think that FB should be held resonsible for all the ways they fucked up the youth, I also think that the parents are to blame as well.
Hilarious that you think that the law affects how the us government behaves.
The holocaust was legal, hiding Jews to keep them alive was illegal.
Following the law does not guarantee you’re doing the right thing.
Equating this law with hiding jews during the holocaust is crazy.
At the rate things have been going, we are certainly headed that way and we get there by accepting this kind unnecessary privacy violations.
Let’s just ignore whether there’s any moral or ethical arguments about legal compliance: What law is this man complying with? This is not a law that governs him. He is volunteering, and not compelled. There is no sanctity of law at play here.
Are you implying that only people who are affected by something are allowed to contribute to open source projects? If this were some nobody developer in California would that really make you any more likely to accept that this merge request is okay?
There’s no subtext. This man has no obligation to this law, so “How dare this person follow the law. ;(” isn’t relevant. This man is not following a law, he is simply going about his day. He is volunteering, and not compelled. There is no sanctity of law at play here.
But, to play ball, yes. If a person who would otherwise receive punishment were to do this, I would take that into account. That is not the case here.
You want the user to put their age somewhere?
Have a simple script that asks for a number and echos it into a file called “age”. Done.
And they can only run the script if they want to.
I love the level of disdain the linux community has for this kinda bootlicking.
Collaborator
Someone would have had to do this eventually anyways. Be angry at the geriatric fascists, not developers. If it comes to it that the project cannot survive without these changes, then it would be made so that these changes are made.
You gotta think and read more about the actual issue here. The PR was pointless. The idea that Linux could ever comply is absurd. It’s open source. It’s international. Nobody cares about Colorado law.
We’re all going to die one day anyway, might as well jump off a cliff now.
There is a special guillotine for this wannabe parasite.
I still don’t understand why it needs to be implemented as part of systemd, and not - say - as a service. Or, if we want to “go with” the law - make it a kernel module, which sounds more impressive (“we are complying at the kernel level!”) but in practice so much easier to opt out of.
I don’t see what’s wrong with implementing it as an add-on to the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gecos_field as the PR in question does. It’s the most logical place as the location to store user information and is even easier to opt out of—you just edit a file—than choosing whether to compile Linux with/add to DKMS a kernel module.
Is there an Arch fork that is not implementing this shit or do I have to go non systemd now? Because this BS is not going on any of my machines.
Artix is one, but I have no experience with it.
https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/systemd-liberated-libs-git
systemd has already been forked
Don’t go around installing random AUR packages, this really shouldn’t need to be said.
+1 I spent years wondering if my decision to invest in learning systemd was worth it. The sunk cost fallacy blinded me for too long but I am now willing to ditch systemd if a fork is not made.
I believe this pissed of enough users and it’s likely we will see a fork
Linux Community: It’s Free Software. You can do what you want!
Also Linux community: BUT NOT THAT!
Its a free world wear any costume you want
BUT NOT THAT
Heh you said “any costume” bet you feel really silly nowhow do you use these emojis?
They’re from hexbear. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/lemmy-emojis/
ah, i use a mobile app
ah if you have a hexbear account you can also draft a reply to some comment there and then copy-paste it here. Alternatively you can click on
of emojis you see and like and copy the markdown code.
I have the strong feeling, that some guys have crossed some red lines. Verbal abuse is also a form of violence. What will happen next? Will you beat, kill?
Then he said Arch Linux should implement it anyway because the law requires it. archinstall PR #4290
Well, it’s not “the law”, it’s your local law. To most people on the planet, it doesn’t apply any more than for example North Korea’s laws. As far as I can find, Arch Linux is not owned by a foundation or similar legal entity (i.e. which could have been located in California), but the lead developer appears to live in Germany.
I mean they kidnapped maduro and are trying him under new york law so…
So… if the law interferes with your goals, apparently it is now perfectly fine to just ignore it.
That seems to be the approach the US government is taking.
I mean yes, the dems have been breathlessly going on about how that thing that Trump’s doing is illegal but nothing seems to happen. There is no opposition at all
Germany has a similar law already active
§12 Jugendmedienschutzstaatsvertrag
(1) Anbieter von Betriebssystemen, die von Kindern und Jugendlichen üblicherweise genutzt werden im Sinne des § 16 Abs. 1 Satz 3 Nr. 6, stellen sicher, dass ihre Betriebssysteme über eine den nachfolgenden Absätzen entsprechende Jugendschutzvorrichtung verfügen. Passt ein Dritter die vom Anbieter des Betriebssystems bereitgestellte Jugendschutzvorrichtung an, besteht die Pflicht aus Satz 1 insoweit bei diesem Dritten. (3) In der Jugendschutzvorrichtung muss eine Altersangabe eingestellt werden können
But yes, neither such laws nor the implementation into systemd is in any way positive and should be fought
Jugendmedienschutzstaatsvertrag
Is that a single word? O_O
Jesus fucking Christ guys. Regardless of your thoughts on age verification, hunting down someone just for complying with the (currently) rather inoffensive law is nuts.
Posting his face here is absolutely going to get him doxxed, and going to cause someone to actually hunt him down and hurt him.
Focus your anger on the people who actually passed and push for this law. Not the person who drew the short straw and had to implement it.
No.
Uhm, wat. Had to implement, worldwide? Da fuck are you talking about?
Why does the rest of the world have to comply with a handful of states laws? The US is not the center of the universe. If you people want to lick the boot and allow this, then by all means, create your own terrible versions and leave the rest of the world alone.
Have you checked your local laws? At least for Germany there is already one requiring this option.
Complying with this shit is nuts.
Provided compliance is nuts, this man is a nutcase for complying. Sounds all good, but I dont believe being a nutcase warrants doxxing, verbal harassment, verbal threatening, and everything else that we’re seeing here.
So what you are saying is is that you are a collaborator, too? What’s your real name, friend?
it’s the public info on the accounts GitHub page it’s not like anybody really had to dig at all
There’s a huge difference between someone’s information being available on github and someone taking their picture and photoshopping it to look like a mugshot and writing a hit piece article that’s whipping people up into a lynch mob.
Not really.
It’s not inoffensive at all, it’s being pushed by religious whackjobs https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2026/03/rep-finke-was-right-age-gating-isnt-about-kids-its-about-control
That’s the Minnesota bill. The PR does not comply with that. You can read on how to the California law and NY and Colorado bills basically say to give the user a drop-down to select their birth date.
- He didn’t draw any straw. Nobody asked him to do that (or maybe Meta did?).
- In fact, he appeared out of the blue to do this implementation. This was his very first pull request on the Systemd git.
- From the very start he received a huge amount of critical comments from the community on GitHub, while he was working on this. He neglected their criticism and plowed on.
So he already had a warning that the majority of the community didn’t agree on what he was doing. Nobody asked him to. He chose to continue – he could have imagined the consequences.
And the whole context on why and why now he did this is fishy.
Systemd is NOT an operating system provider, so they didn’t have to do absolutely anything.
It was their choice to do what they did, not the law, especially since it won’t be active and enforceable before next year.
Witch hunts are despicable indeed but lets not use that an an excuse to justify what they did.
Not the person who drew the short straw and had to implement it.
That’s the whole point, though, they don’t have to implement it. They’re under no obligation at all to do so. Try to rule Linux is illegal in California and watch Silicon Valley lobbyists damn near riot. They’re just giving in, but even just procrastination would be a ridiculously effective tactic.
He “was only following orders”. But yes this is a class war.
Nah useful idiots like this deserve the shit they’ll get.
A mistake without regret must be punished. They are not kids acting silly. I don’t feel comfortable with a foot on my neck, even when that foot isn’t pressing very hard.
to all y’all with the “it’s just a text filed”: what if the field is “race”? “sexual orientation”? “jerks_off_to”? what the fuck has a system managing daemon got to do with any of that? and why would you preemptively put it in there without even a pretense of a fight?
fuck you make us! make linux illegal, in Cali of all places. guess how long that will last?
Yeah, scary.
What about some other scary fields like:
- Real Name
- Office Address
- Office number
- Office telephone number
- Home telephone number
- external e-mail address
I mean if those fields were stored, could you imagine the danger that Linux users would be in?
You don’t have to imagine, because those fields have been stored in UNIX/Linux since 1962. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gecos_field
Those are also entirely optional and not having them filled in doesn’t cause other software to stop doing what the user wants.
(same for the birthDate field)
Depends how these new laws are written.
The same with the birthDate field.
… unless someone merges a PR making it required, which is the discussion of this thread.
Stored “because law”, right?
Who cares why it is stored, these fields exist for every user in every Linux system and they have existed for decades.
Either birthDate the field is dangerous or it isn’t. If it is, how?
It is no different than data fields that ask for way more identifiable and personal information such as Real Name and Office number which have, again, existed for decades without issue.
I care. One thing is “you know, fields with this name have been around since before you were born”, another thing is “some idiots passed the law half the globe away, now we are preparing your system to comply. Someone has to ©”. The field is not the danger, the thinking, attitude and act is
Edit: some local law, for fuck’s sake
Half a world away where do you live since this is happening everywhere. To be half a world away from any place doing this would be hard.
That’s a fair argument.
Is it fair to say: The field is benign but there is contention about if it should be added or not and users of the software are concerned that their voices were not heard on the issue. That can be handled in the normal project framework, perhaps by suggesting a publicly stated policy about these issues around legal compliance so the community can determine if they want to support the project or not.
My argument is that I don’t think that the damage that was done justifies the hitpiece in the OP which is, almost literally, painting a target on the developer with the mugshot photograph and loaded language.
So, if you’re not one of the people then we’re having different conversations. In that conversation, I do agree with what you just said. I’d like to see the very large projects, which affect a lot of users, such as systemd, have a more formal way to accept public comment and respond on contentious changes and feature requests.
Is it fair to say: The field is benign
It is benign if it is optional, remains 100% local and under the user’s control and doesn’t prevent other software from functioning as expected.
I think back then it was generally assumed this simply assisted with office communication.
Imagine telling a UNIX engineer in the 70’s how almost everything you enter into a machine would eventually be used to manipulate or entrap you by the State and surveillance capitalism.
Imagine telling a UNIX engineer in the 70’s how almost everything you enter into a machine would eventually be used to manipulate or entrap you by the State and surveillance capitalism.
This isn’t a hypothetical. North Korea uses a version of Linux which does exactly that.
It still doesn’t make these fields inherently dangerous, and that same argument applies to birthDate. Even if systemd build a verification system that required photo identification and a DNA sample it wouldn’t be a problem.
The community would just fork the project before the totalitarianism update. The FOSS world already has a process to avoid massively unpopular changes. This change isn’t massively unpopular, this is a vocal minority who is stirred up by web articles leveraging clickbait and outrage to drive ad revenue.
The age verification laws are unpopular, I’m personally completely against them. However, they do exist and adding an optional field in order to allow project, who choose to do so, to store that data is not a red line or the start of a slippery slope.
In the future, if there was a red line that was crossed, we would fix it with a fork and not with a harassment campaign.
You think you can just make up lies about countries far away from you and no one will notice? Think again, whisu.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog
That’s you. You have no issues giving anyone an inch and then wondering why you’re being lined up on the street afterwards once they’ve taken the mile.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope
That’s you. You have no issue embarking on a creative writing exercise, painting the scariest possible scenario and pointing at that piece of fiction as if it were reality.
You must be off by a decade. Your reference mentions no OS and Unic was developed around 1970.
Your reference mentions no OS
Someone add the default to 1/1/1970
