I’ve been using Linux exclusively for about 8 years. Recently I got frustrated with a bunch of issues that popped one after another. I had a spare SSD so I decided to check out Windows again. I’ve installed Windows 11 LTSC. It was a nightmare. After all the years on Linux, I forgot how terrible Windows actually is.
On the day I installed the system and a bunch of basic software, I had two bluescreens. I wasn’t even doing anything at that time, just going through basic settings and software installation. Okay, it happens. So I installed Steam and tried to play a game I’ve been currently playing on Linux just to see the performance difference. And it was… worse, for some reason. The “autodetect” in game changed my settings from Ultra to High. On Linux, the game was running at the 75 fps cap all the time. Windows kept dropping them to around 67-ish a lot of times. But the weirdest part was actual power consumption and the way GPU worked. Both systems kept the GPU temperature at around 50C. But the fans were running at 100% speed at that temperature on Windows, while Linux kept them pretty quiet. I had to change the fan controls by myself on Windows just because it was so annoying. The power consumption difference was even harder to explain, as I was getting 190-210W under Linux and under Windows I got 220-250W. And mind you, under Linux I had not only higher graphical settings set up, but was also getting better performance.
I tried connecting my bluetooth earbuds to my PC. Alright, the setup itself was fine. But then the problems started. My earbuds support opus codec for audio. Do you think I can change the bluetooth codec easily, just like on Linux? Nope. There is no way to do it without some third party programs. And don’t even get me started on Windows randomly changing my default audio output and trying to play sound through my controller.
Today I decided to make this rant-post after yet another game crashed on me twice under Windows. I bought Watch Dogs since it’s currently really cheap on Steam. I click play. I get the loading screen. The game crashed. I try again. I play through the basic “tutorial”. After going out of the building, game crashed again. I’m going to play again, this time under Linux.
I’ve had my share of frustrations under Linux, but that experience made me realise that Windows is not a perfect solution either. Spending a lot of time with Linux and it’s bugs made me forget all the bad experience in the past with Windows, and I was craving to go back to the “just works” solution. But it’s not “just works”. Two days was all it took for me to realize that I’ll actually stick with Linux, probably forever. The spare SSD went back to my drawer, maybe so I can try something new in the future. It’s so good to be back after a short trip to the other side!
Third party licensed apps are everything on Windows.
My main issue with Windows isn’t its technology, but its attitude. The user is no longer the most important consideration. In that way it’s become adversarial.
Windows is fine for me. I work with it all day long too. But yeah Windows is just another enshitification product.
My work just changed from gsuite to m365 and it is atrocious. Obviously fuck google but god damn if microsoft arent just the worst at designing UI and considering actual consumer concerns when dsigning programs. Quit your job if they change to office.
Yes. I prefer my os to be more passively adversarial. Like Gentoo. It hates everything equally.
Eh, Gentoo is pretty quiet most of the time once you’ve got it installed. After that, you just have to keep an eye on it and make sure it doesn’t go off its meds (although once every few years, it will come up with a weird and wonderful way of doing so that you can’t block.)
All operating systems suck, some just suck harder than others.
Yeah that’s hard to see when i have to boot windows for work every weekday.
The issues are the little things, like 300ms lag here or there where things are instant on Linux. Or the flashing taskbar icon when an app wants your attention. Or the obfuscated settings. Or the ‘everything is an edge applet’. Or the cpu fans racing to send data back and forth with MS services. (Seriously try simplewall sometime. It’s scary to see the connections, and blocking them makes your computer silent)
Booting into Linux at the end of the day is such a relief every single time.
Now I’m imagining an angry Gentoo penguin snapping at fingers any time someone wants to use their PC 😅
In that way it’s become adversarial.
Back in the 2000s, I was able to say that while a fundamental install took only about a half hour to set up, usability tweaks and a full fleshing out of functionality took another 4-8 hours depending on what the user was going to use the machine for.
I just did a Win11 24h2 install. It took nearly 24 working hours before I considered it even minimally functional for my needs. Cycling through Win10Privacy two or three times was particularly frustrating. Registry work alone took me a good 8-10 hours of trying stuff a step at a time and then rebooting to see how it worked.
At this point, the only reason why I am still running with a Windows rig is for those half-dozen programs that don’t have appropriate non-Windows variants. It’s why I’m also running a Mac Mini and an OpenSUSE tower through the same 4-port, 6-head KVM.
Indeed it is difficult to hammer it in to shape. In addition, Microsoft will often quietly reset setting back in their favour. It’s that constant fight that tipped the scales for me.
Put it in a VM?
It’s definitely an abusive relationship.
i setup my old job with linux internally. never had issues. day i quit boss told me to install windows so he can find a replacement employee. sure.
3 years later. boss wants me back. they’ve had nothing but problems. but i’m not allowed to install linux again.
he says, “if windows didn’t have so many problems you would be out of a job.”
See, I’ve had a similar experience getting games to run on Debian. Steam games crash and require research and testing to see if I can even get them to run, having some in-game videos just not play, black screens, and games just kinda freezing are all super common for me. That’s just when trying to run games via Proton.
I get some of it can be tied to a skill issue on my part, but at the end of the day I’m tired and don’t want to spend what little free time I have tinkering to get a game working, at least most days.
Still, my dislike for Windows 11 outweighs my interest in gaming so Debian stays.
I disagree, as much as I wish it weren’t so. Compared to Linux from the perspective of this gamer, it does just work. I wish I could main Linux but I can’t handle any more critical boot issues or significant reductions in framerate. Not to mention that I cant easily auto-wol my lg tv “monitor” like I could from windows.
Oh speaking of monitors. How many times have I tried to use more than 2 monitors on Linux… Never worked. On Windows it’s a matter of plug & play and it just works. :)
Yeah, op just had a very rare experience.
Yeah, sadly some games still do not work well on linux. Recently I had issues with Talos principle 2, where it may randomly crash on loading screen.
In my experience, a stable beginner friendly distro such as mint, is 10x closer to “just working” but…
I do think that the windos DE tends to be more reliable than any linux DE I have tested. The only DE that compares is gnome, which I find very very stable (but I hate it)
I think that non-technical people are just used to a simple playbook of:
- GUI is rarely the issue, so you never need to see the terminal.
- If there is an issue, restart
- If that didn’t work, ask for help from your local techy
And for linux step 3 usually doesn’t work because your local techy is probably someone who just knows how to google and paste into cmd.
Huh? Only DE thing not being stable for me was xfce Thunar being crashy for a while. There are unstalbe DE?
I tried Cinnamon, KDE, XFCE and gnome. The only one that I can’t recall having any issues with is Gnome.
I think problems that could be solved are generic hardware compatibility. Being able to install Wi-Fi adapters and Digital Tokens easily on Linux would go a long way. I think it will get there, though.
Wifi works great on every distro I tried
BCM4360 doesn’t work reliably for me even to this day
With a Wi-Fi adapter on Desktop?
Yes, on these distros that i remember: arch, fedora and mint
And for linux step 3 usually
doesn’tworks because your local techy is probably someone who just knows how to google and paste intocmdthe terminal.
Windows bloat sucks. I wish Microsoft gave you the option to just install the components/features you’re likely to use. That way you could have an agile, minimal custom installation like you do in Arch.
They do give you an option to customize OS components. But this feature isn’t targeted to home users but to enterprises and OEM manufacturera
like tiny11?
It’s interesting seeing the variety of experiences in this thread. I definitely had to fight Linux to get it setup and stable on my machine, but ever since then it’s been rock solid in a way I’ve never experienced with a Windows install.
Windows has a mind of its own…and being at the mercy of their update cadence or w/e other nonsense Microsoft is pushing sucks.
Meanwhile on Linux, I’ve had two CPUs that have C-State/P-State issues (5900x, 1700x), some weirdness with my audio interface, and a GPP0 bug that interferes with sleep. All of them are fixed or managed on Bazzite now, and it took plenty of digging for docs/reddit threads but now it’s rock solid.
On Windows, any time I’ve needed to deal with the Microsoft Store I run into issues that require registry fixes, uninstall/reinstalling various things, etc. Sea of Thieves and Forza Horizon 5 had issues launching as a result on Windows but not on Linux.
Ultimately, not being under the Microsoft gun is such a relief that the initial battle is completely put out of my mind. I’ve had some instances where I’ll boot into Windows for games, or HDR/Atmos support more reliably for my living room setup, but they have gotten rarer and rarer over the past couple of months.
For the record, Sea Of Thieves is also available as a standalone purchase through Steam, bypassing the Microsoft Store and their half abandoned UWP format entirely. Never had any issues with the Steam version on Windows.
The microsoft store sells games? I thought that was only used to occasionally update your xbox for pc controllers by grabbing the xbox accessories app. Never seen the microsoft store otherwise.
I think the Xbox App somewhat serves content through the Microsoft Store, I definitely had to troubleshoot between the two for a couple things.
They do sell games as well. I think I got an episode of the Batman Telltale series through it for free, though much like Epic managing an additional library with less features/support is usually not worth it for me.
Ah sorry, guess I should have tagged it as sarcastic.
Honestly I think this may have happened on the Steam version for me, I ended up reinstalling on Linux same-day and didnt have the same issue.
IIRC it had something to do with the Xbox Game Bar/App registry entries that still applied to the Steam version. I had definitely used the UWP version before though, so it’s possible it was that or that had contributed.
But downloading it on Bazzite and just having it work was…a little bizarre to experience.
Does Sea of Thieves work on Linux? I thought it had kernel anti-cheat.
It works! Looks like some people have run into issues with EAC but it worked without finicking around for me.
i almost forget how much it sucks whenever i’m not forced to use it for a while.
Windows 11 LTSC
I’m using Window 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC; the biggest issue I’ve had was that I couldn’t get my video card installed. I had to wait until there was an updated driver, a few weeks after I assembled my computer. Every time I tried to install the driver that was supposed to be the correct one, I got a BSOD.
Honestly, I like 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC better than I liked the 10 Pro version that I had. And–compared to the only Linux distro I’ve used, Tails–it’s fairly straightforward. And yes, I know the Tails is kind of a pain in the ass, and it’s not fair to judge all of Linux against that. But i’m old, and cranky, and just want Win 3.11 back.
Good call. I’ve had to use Windows on work computers for the last 15 years, and I think it’s insane when people talk about it being simple or just working. I feel like I’m being gaslighted by people who maybe don’t know Linux very well so they decided Windows is good actually.
It appears to be all held together with string and ready to crumble randomly.
We keep one Windows laptop in our house so my partner can use some proprietary software she needs for work. When something goes wrong we just reimage it with the HP support tool because otherwise trying to fix it is like pulling your own teeth out.
I work in IT supporting windows (server primarily) and from my perspective it does work pretty well. We have around 1500 Windows clients and around 400-500 Windows servers and it works pretty damn well. Sure problems happen, in general it does work. Now, I don’t work in T1 support so I’m not sure how often people have problems but I would definitely hear about it if it were as bad as some on Lemmy claim.
Our Windows Servers in general work great, I don’t think we have noticeably more problems with them compared to our Linux servers which we have maybe 20% more of.
Remember that pretty much the entire enterprise world use primarily or exclusively Windows clients and that would absolutely not be the case if they were “held together with string and ready to crumble randomly.” That would simply not be acceptable in companies which could lose millions in just lost productivity.
Relax, mate. I’m not trying to take away your Windows Server. Just talking about how bad windows is from end user perspective… absolute rubbish, barely usable, nearly impossible to troubleshoot.
I’m glad you get along with it from your IT professional/server admin role.
That’s because of active directory. It makes managing hundreds of users, across as many devices, in a centralized manner, easier. You make a user for the person with the intended access scheme, hand them a random laptop imaged from a master system OS, and off they go with access to all the software and tools tied to their user login. There’s no similar alternative with a robust support service for Linux clients. If there were, then changing a culture to Linux clients wouldn’t have so much friction.
Yea, I have to use windows at work presently and I hate every second of fighting with it.
Windows doesn’t even have a fully functional implementation of focusing windows on hover, a common feature of any Linux system WM I have ever used. There is a setting to do this in Windows accessibility settings, and it’s true, it DOES change focus on hover; but it DOESN’T change the functionality of foreground windows getting pushed behind those windows, making it pretty much pointless, and actually more annoying to use.
Also just the performance is such shit, probably because it’s now designed to be doing hundreds of unnecessary telemetry tasks at all time on the back end. Also what the fuck is with every piece of Windows software configuring itself to run on boot or as a service? So incredibly annoying.
I’d summarize the current OS situation as
Windows Just Works until it doesn’t, at which point there’s basically nothing you can do about it and you just have to kick it until something clicks into place and it starts working properly again.
Whereas linux Just Works to a slightly smaller degree, but when it stops Just Working it does so in granular steps most of the time, and every part of the ecosystem tries to help you fix things when they break.
Windows is a resin-potted black box that takes input and does stuff, if it breaks you’re supposed to just chuck it and buy a new one.
Linux is a slightly bulkier thing that you can just unscrew and replace a capacitor when it breaks.Only if you refuse to put forth the same effort into fixing windows as you do with Linux. Not wanting to learn doesn’t mean it’s not learnable.
Have a different experience. Usually, Linux does not even boot, due to driver issues, in the first place. So, the first installation process usually easily takes 5 to 10 hours, straight. And this is only for common popular distributions, not to mention lesser known and lesser supported ones. (Talking about Linux GUI based installations, only.)
yeah no i’m sorry but this just sounds completely fucking made up
What do you need as proof? All I have to do, is getting a random laptop, doesn’t matter which one and I will make a video for you. Is that enough?
Over the past 5 years, I’ve installed ubuntu about 30 times on different computers. Not once has an install on an SSD taken me more than an hour, with it typically taking me 30 minutes or less except for rare occasions where I’ve messed something up.
It’s not about the speed of the installation… It’s about the installation not working. Crashes. Hard to see error logs. Drivers missing for the most generic hardware, ever. No, I’m not talking about an unmaintained fringe distribution. I’m talking about Ubuntu, Lubuntu & Debian. Plain old stable and simple.
I almost never had Linux not boot after a fresh install, even with nVidia hardware. It happened a few times like 10 years ago and never again. What hardware are you running?
Happened to me all the time, when, for example, setting up very generic and common laptops for family & friends. It never worked out of the box. Every single time, I had to give special treatment. Research extra drivers, etc… Hard to do in some locations, when they do not have a second system to do all the work from.
Laptops have historically been a little iffy yeah. Personally I haven’t had many issues except for Nvidia optimus, but since most of them are non standard and proprietary it used to be kind of a pain. Now though it’s much better, at least on newer hardware, even my newest laptop with hybrid graphics just worked out of the box.
Tried it over many years. Last one was last year. Every time, the same problem. I even considered moving to Windows, but it would be tougher for me to administrate for me, as I’m used to headless Linux. It’s just, whenever Linux tries to GUI, it fucks up everything colossaly.
I just don’t see it. I run it on all my PCs with nvidia, amd, hybrid graphics, pretty much any combination (I have too many 😅). It works. Even various friends of mine have tried it on their older setups, no problems there either.
Unless you’re using something like Debian or whatever with crazy old packages, everything works for the most part. Nvidia is still not great on Wayland but it at least works now.
I’m not saying your experience isn’t valid, I’m not trying to gaslight you, but I’m not sure it’s representative of the average experience nowadays.
Yeah, I am very familiar with Debian on servers. It works great on servers. Have experienced with all kinds of stability stages regarding Debian.
However, Desktop Debian usually does not work. Then I switch to the one, which should work the easiest, so Ubuntu or some derivative. And this usually still needs tons of troubleshooting over hours to make it work to a minimum standard…
What PCs? Certified by some Linux supporting company? If you buy a random laptop or pre-made PC, chances are high, that it won’t work. And I’m not even a “beginner”, who does “beginner” mistakes. No, I’m actually a Linux pro. I work with Linux literally every single day, even in my free time.
Lol “the main computer market is iffy”
Historically, yeah. Nowadays (as in the last 2-3 years) I don’t really see many issues. It’s fairly solid in my experience.
And let’s be honest, Windows is a nightmare as well on many laptops. If you wipe them and start from scratch, there is a non zero chance that you’ll have to source like half the drivers manually.
To get to a working state you’re very likely to be fine. They’re all using Intel wifi and some elan touchpad, so the basics work well enough to bootstrap up to your vendors website.
For this hypothetical activity most people never think about doing.
I just installed Linux Mint yesterday. Can’t wait to get home to continue playing around with it. I like it so far!
The problem with Windows is that it is not build to be parametrised. Anyone a bit tech-savy will be frustrated by the inability to tune it effectively for its need.
The problem with Linux is that it is not tech-normie friendly. Sure it has distribution easy to use and pre-parametrised so anyone with basic computer skill can use it. But people with basic computer skill don’t have computers with Linux. Anyone who just want to use a computer has to first learn how to install an OS.The problem with Linux is that it is not tech-normie friendly.
That probably was true 15 years ago. That is absolutely not true now. This misconception stems from the fact that most tech normies have a lot of experience with Windows through job, so people assume Windows is friendly, but in reality they just know how it works.
Learning how to use Linux is dead easy. It’s not popular because it’s not pre installed, as you said, but it’s not because the OS is bad, it’s because Linux doesn’t have multibillion corporation behind it to make sure its everywhere.I tend to disagree, I do have several devices running Linux and with all of them I had issues after install (standby not working, swap partition not recognized, sound only playing on half of the speakers, issues with monitor scaling etc…) Im fine with it and like the journey, but there are still quirks.
Probably Im in an in-between-world where I do have some tricky use-cases, but missing the full know-how to do it…
thing which makes it not normy-usable, are the documentations: for windows issues you can find DAU-conform guides to solve something. Mostly on “official” (with probably too many ads) pages.
For Linux it’s usually a rabbit hole of official documentations (which dont show all the options), forums, reddit pages, where some guy tells another guy to add xyz to the config file…without telling which file and where in the file. Why is this command not listed in the documentation? What does that command actually do?
It has gotten much better, but there’s still some way to go
[…] in reality they just know how it works
In my experience, they know how a few utilities and how a handful of programs work, but have no idea how Windows works. Not that many people actually know how Windows works.
Roughly figuring out the boot sequence of Linux is relatively easy once you’ve used it for a year or two. What happens when Windows boots? Who knows? kernel32 probably is involved at some point.Linux/Unix is actually relatively simple and logical once you’ve figured it out. Windows is a messy dark maze with grues waiting at every corner to eat you.
They don’t know how it works, but they roughly kind of know how to operate it. And they mistake their years of experience for the intuitivness.
Good points.
